Help on Cholesterol

[dogman]

I agree with E.W.'s comment especially about the ratio of Trigs to HDL being less than 2.
I'll have to go and try to find where I found that info. In one of my previous threads I mentioned that you should read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" it covers so much information that it would be well worth reading it. Also helpful, check out Blood Sugar 101 , Jenny Ruhl's web site (not sure if I'm allowed to refer to another web site)

[csmith1957]

Been on Atkins three months lost 33 pounds
Before HDL36 LDL 105 Triglycrdes 295

After three months on Atkins
HDL 54 LDL179 Triglycrdes 118
Been running 3 miles 4-5 times a week
said I need meds
Told me I should never do lo carb not healthy and would gain the weight back anyway. Told the Doc I was 53 but feel like I am 20 again so I must not be very unhealthy. How do you tell someone stop The Atkins because you are losing weight and feeling better than you have in years. Looking for a new doctor. At first I was upset and shocked but then realized this is what I have been reading about. She gave me a low fat diet plan, yea right add in all the sugar again told her no thanks.

[mamagiff]

Got my blood work results back the other day....I've been doing low carb for quite a few years but not as strict as I could be...having trouble losing, but feel best on low carb...

Numbers from last fall were:

HDL 69
LDL 168
Triglycerides 111

They wanted me to take drugs, said no, give me an altenative....diet and exercise and weight loss was the alternative. Had trouble with it due to a very nasty cold and some stomach issues/inflammation issues but stuck as close to lc as possible even during the holidays...no weight loss (that's a whole 'nother story).

Monday's Lab results:

HDL 91
LDL 213
Triglycerides 87

Huge improvement other than LDL which I really believe is the large, fluffy stuff according to all the stuff I've read....however, they are giving me another 4 weeks to get the LDL down....I am NOT willing to change doctors because I really love this doctor other than this particular issue...I believe if I can lower the LDL to a more reasonable number that he will let it go...

I also believe that if I can get the stomach issues and inflammation stuff under control I can improve the other areas of my health that need improving. I exercise regularly at a fairly intense level....I know my "diet" could be even better so I'm working on that...

[Leo41]

Linda- With your numbers, I'd insist on a VAP test to check the LDL particle size before I agreed to any meds. Keep in mind that if you have Pattern A LDL, then the high number is a good thing. That apparently is very difficult for some doctors to accept--but it's scientifically accurate.

[mamagiff]

Originally Posted by Leo41

Linda- With your numbers, I'd insist on a VAP test to check the LDL particle size before I agreed to any meds. Keep in mind that if you have Pattern A LDL, then the high number is a good thing. That apparently is very difficult for some doctors to accept--but it's scientifically accurate.

Thanks.....I'll look into that....

[shoo]

Boy am I confused.
My lipid numbers must be on a different scale or something. Maybe because I'm in Canada?

cholesterol-6.75
LDL cholesteral-4.4
HDL cholesteral-1.84
chol/hdl risk ratio-3.7
triglycerides-1.09


The doc didn't seem overly concerned because of the risk ratio,but when I started to research it,I got a bit concerned. Should I be?

[Emerald]

Originally Posted by shoo

Boy am I confused.
My lipid numbers must be on a different scale or something. Maybe because I'm in Canada?

cholesterol-6.75
LDL cholesteral-4.4
HDL cholesteral-1.84
chol/hdl risk ratio-3.7
triglycerides-1.09


The doc didn't seem overly concerned because of the risk ratio,but when I started to research it,I got a bit concerned. Should I be?

If you look at post 118 Dogman has given the formula on how to convert the numbers.

[bedroom]

Hi all,

My readings below:

Total: 9.05mmol/L (350mg/dl)
HDL: 2.77mmol/L (107mg/dl)
LDL: 6.13mmol/L (243mg/dl)
Trig: 0.34mmol/L (30mg/dl)

Doctor is very concern about my high total cholesterol (350mg/dl!!) and also high LDL.
Should I be alarm?

[SueinCali]

My numbers, just in today, are very similar to bedroom's, and I'm also here seeking reassurance! I don't have the exact numbers from 2010, but I recall 256 total, 80 HDL. I started a low glycemic (rather than low carb), high fat diet five months ago. My numbers as of yesterday:

Total: 323
Triglycerides: 65
HDL: 115
Direct LDL: 196
Chol/LDL ratio: 2.8
Non-HDL Col, calc: 208

I've lost about 15-20 pounds since I started this style of eating. But looking at the numbers, I just know my doctor is going to freak. I'm a little freaked out by a cholesterol well over 300 myself. What now?

[justinwilloughby]

I have a crazy story. I once weighed 799 pounds. You can google me and find some information on me. Anyway, I started the low carb thing after a few of my friends pretty much inspired me to follow along with them. One of them had high trigs, and high ldl, low hdl. It inspired me to try a new type of eating plan, one that is not restricted from some fat, a eating plan lower in sugar.

Now as I was losing weight, after 8 years, I had perfect blood levels.
As of 2/24/2011

I did not get a vap the first time, and these are my results from then.

Total Cholesterol- 114
Trigs-26
HDL - 58
LDL - 51
Risk Ratio: 1.9

Now from 6/30/2011
Vap test results

Total Cholesterol - 141
LDL - 69
HDL - 59
VLDL- 13
Trigs - 54 (It actually jumped on a low carb/higher fat diet.)
LDL Patter A, but it's not far from being in between.

Now, the concern I have is this. I am active, run 3 days a week, at least 2 miles a day, and I try to keep the cardiovascular level of my exercise up for 60 minutes. I lift weights, do 1 or 2 body parts a day.

I keep my carbs under 40 a day.
I do have as much sugar as I want to one day a week. (This could be the reason my blood levels elevated.)
I don't drink all the water that most experts recommend. I usually drink diet soda.
I eat nuts/limited fruit.
I do eat a lot of greens.

The doctor said this.. "Keep doing what you are doing, and enjoy your life." I told him I was on an atkins type of plan, and he informed me that it's a bad idea. He said go more towards south beach. I didn't agree.. and I am getting a retest done in 3 months. I will probably cheat less, and start taking 500 mg of flush free niacin, and fish oil. I also am starting to eat a clove of garlic a day. I am hoping this will get my levels a little better. I am not concerned that about where they are at. I am just concerned about the major jump in just a few months. I don't want that to continue, I want that to ease off.

Any suggestions/comments?

[Meek75]

These are my numbers for the past two years. What do you think? I'm having my cholesterol checked again on Monday. I will post the results then. I'm afraid because I had messed around with low fat for awhile, so if the numbers are bad, I know why!!

2010
LDL: 117
HDL: 64
Tri: 117
Total=249
Ratio: 3.89%

2009
LDL: 191
HDL: 57
Tri: 92
Total=266
Ratio: 4.6%

[JuneCC]

Okay, trigs came down, HDL went up....that's good, right? But, still, WOW, bad ratio!

Dec 2010
Total: 280
Tri: 178
HDL: 40
VLDL: 31
LDL: 209
%HDL: 14
Chol:HDL Ratio: 7

Aug 2011 (+/- change)
Total: 338 (+58)
Tri: 138 (-39)
HDL: 50 (+10)
VLDL: 35 (+4)
LDL: 253 (+44)
%HDL: 15 (+1)
Chol:HDL Ratio: 7 (no change)

What to do, what to do...but definitely NOT statins!

Oh, and my A1C went from 13.3 to 5.5!!!!!

[mjcel]

Hi all,
I have been low-carbing for 18 months. Lost 40 lbs and am at my goal weight. 6 months I asked my dr to go off of my statin. She said yes but, we would recheck in 6 months. The numbers came back yesterday.
TOTAL Chol = 312 - previously on meds = 205
HDL = 109 - previously on meds was 90
LDL = 189 - previously on meds was 105
TRIG = 70 - previously on meds was 49

I know she is going to want to put me back on the drugs. Do these numbers look really scary? Please help.

[Meek75]

Originally Posted by mjcel

Hi all,
I have been low-carbing for 18 months. Lost 40 lbs and am at my goal weight. 6 months I asked my dr to go off of my statin. She said yes but, we would recheck in 6 months. The numbers came back yesterday.
TOTAL Chol = 312 - previously on meds = 205
HDL = 109 - previously on meds was 90
LDL = 189 - previously on meds was 105
TRIG = 70 - previously on meds was 49

I know she is going to want to put me back on the drugs. Do these numbers look really scary? Please help.

I'm no doctor, but your ratio of 2.86 is within range . Are you on omega 3's?

[PastLRtist]

Help!!! Just got back lab results...my HDL is 52 (was 47 before low carb) my LDL is 193 (was 137 before low-carb!). My trigs are 95 (was 120).
Do you think I should ask for a particle size test???
Thank you! That 193 is freaking me out! I'd been SOOO good on the HFLC plan! Hoping that I have the "good"(fluffy) type of LDL!

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by PastLRtist

Help!!! Just got back lab results...my HDL is 52 (was 47 before low carb) my LDL is 193 (was 137 before low-carb!). My trigs are 95 (was 120).
Do you think I should ask for a particle size test???
Thank you! That 193 is freaking me out! I'd been SOOO good on the HFLC plan! Hoping that I have the "good"(fluffy) type of LDL!

Yes
Ask!

LDL shoots up...its a fact for low carbers. Are you eating coconut oil as well?

Welcome to LCF.

[Stevie Renee]

Cholesterol Ratios - And my VAP test
This is what I was told about ratios; note that this person was reading my VAP test a few years ago.

The ideal ratio of Total/HDL is 4.4 for women and 5 for men. Also, according to http://wwww.yourmedicaldetective.com/public/532.cfm and several other sites, the ratio of your trigs to your HDL will indicate whether your LDL is small and dense (bad) or large and fluffy (neutral). A larger number indicates smaller LDL particles and a smaller number indicates larger LDL particles. It's an inverse relationship.

(Here was mine a few years ago;Your Total/HDL ratio is 4.8. That's not wonderful, but it's not as bad as it could be - I've seen much worse. The best way to fix that is to lower your trigs and raise your HDL, and other people have posted about ways to do that - I'd do a search. )

The ideal ratio of Trig/HDL is 2 or below. 4 is high. 6 is "danger!!" Yours is 2.16, which is great.

Additionally, a low ratio of Trig/HDL is great because it's a semi-reliable indicator of lower free insulin levels. Lower free insulin is good. However, this doesn't appear to work for those of African descent, so take that with a grain of salt.

The ratio of LDL to HDL is considered to be a marker of carotid plaque, or how much plaque you have built up in your arteries. The ideal levels are below 4.4; 4.4-7.1 is average risk for developing heart disease; 7.1 to 11 is a moderate risk of heart disease; and greater than 11 means you have a high risk of developing heart disease.

Your LDL/HDL ratio is 3.3, which is well below 4.4, and that means you're doing fine.

"One should lower LDL thereby raising the HDL level. If the LDL/HDL ratio lies within 3.3-4.4 then the patient is at low risk. If it is within the value range 4.4-7.1 then there is average risk for developing the heart disease. If the ratio lies within the range of 7.1-11.0 then there is a moderate risk. If the ratio is greater than 11.0 then there is high risk of developing the heart disease. Absolute cholesterol treatment is useful for the treatment rather the LDL/HDL ratio."

My question is "low risk" not as good as ideal? And from what I've researched below 3 is more the range fitting that parameter?

Thanks... and with as much time as you've researched and spent, my mind would be boggled with all the data! FWIW my data point is what is currently utilized by Lab Techs when advising interns/residents at a major teaching hospital in Chicago with interpretation of cholesterol screening ratios.

Okay, with cholesterol the goal is always to be at or below the ideal (except in the case of HDL, where you want to be at or above the ideal). If the ideal is 3.3 to 4.4, then 4.4 is the top end of "ideal" and anything below that is better.



Hope this helps some of you with ratios & the VAP test a wee bit.

I also got a heart scan done and have zero plaque. Yeah.


A great source is heartscanblog - Dr William Davis & also a blog by Heart Hawk.

Read Wheat Belly, Good Calories/Bad Calories and Doctor Eades Blog post about LDL.

[Mishka68]

My cholesterol esults from yesterday:


total = 157
triglycerides = 34
HDL = 61
LDL = 88

Any input is appreciated as I am clueless about this stuff.

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by Mishka68

My cholesterol esults from yesterday:


total = 157
triglycerides = 34
HDL = 61
LDL = 88

Any input is appreciated as I am clueless about this stuff.

Your total is low. Probably made your doc happy is he/she goes by that marker. Sometimes low cholesterol is also a signal to check your serotonin. I am not 100% sure but do your homework. Also, I would get your VIT D checked if you haven't. I have read all of this is hand in hand (lipid & vit d)

Are you on an statins? My MIL is not a low carber & her panel looks a lot like yours, no statins. She does have a laundry list of health issues however like thyroid, candida, winter blues, depression, super low vit D, fatigue.

This is how to do ratios:

Total divided into HDL; ideal ratio 4.4.
Yours is 2.57

Trigs divided into HDL: ideal is 2 or below. 4 is high, 6 is dangerous.
Yours is .55

LDL divided into HDL: considered to be the marker for carotid plaque. Ideal is below 4.4-4.47 - Yours is 1.44


Your ratios look fine.

On Dr William Davis blog he says we should strive for 60-60-60-60.
HDL, LDL, TRIGS and VIT D. Your trigs are the lowest I have ever seen!

[Mishka68]

Originally Posted by Stevie Renee

Your total is low. Probably made your doc happy is he/she goes by that marker. Sometimes low cholesterol is also a signal to check your serotonin. I am not 100% sure but do your homework. Also, I would get your VIT D checked if you haven't. I have read all of this is hand in hand (lipid & vit d)

Are you on an statins? My MIL is not a low carber & her panel looks a lot like yours, no statins. She does have a laundry list of health issues however like thyroid, candida, winter blues, depression, super low vit D, fatigue.

This is how to do ratios:

Total divided into HDL; ideal ratio 4.4.
Yours is 2.57

Trigs divided into HDL: ideal is 2 or below. 4 is high, 6 is dangerous.
Yours is .55

LDL divided into HDL: considered to be the marker for carotid plaque. Ideal is below 4.4-4.47 - Yours is 1.44


Your ratios look fine.

On Dr William Davis blog he says we should strive for 60-60-60-60.
HDL, LDL, TRIGS and VIT D. Your trigs are the lowest I have ever seen!

I do struggle with "the blues" and I recently began taking Vit D (I have never been a milk drinker, but I live at the beach and get plenty of sunshine in an effort to fight my blues LOL) -- but I have been taking 1/2 of the lowest dose of Lexapro for a while...before that it was Zoloft. Wish I had known back then what I know now and I'd have never begun taking those d*mn anti-depressants.

The last few times I've had my cholesterol taken the doc and nurses all "ooh and ahhh" over my numbers but I realize it's more than just numbers so I come here for an eval My doc actually asked what I eat and also told me about a year ago I had the lowest trigs he recalls seeing -- is that a good thing or maybe not? He seemed happy as a clam about it, but I know standard health care providers just go by charts more than anything.

Thanks so much for your input.

[Mishka68]

Oh, and no statins.

[Mishka68]

I found this old thread with Jimmy Moore on super low tri's : My super low triglycerides

[Stevie Renee]

Interesting! And I love it that Dr Davis was talked about.

I would recommend you getting your D checked - because it may be that you need a prescription. Dr Davis explained that as we age, even in the sun or consuming milk, we don't produce Vit D like a child or absorb it. Worth a look for you.

Looks like you are in good shape! Glad to know you are not on statins.

Just keep a file on your research & numbers. You are way ahead of the game

My trigs were 84 but before they were 45ish. I was eating a lot of coconut oil. Maybe consider that also if you are not consuming it.

[Mishka68]

interestingly, my thyroid test came back as 1.17 -- doesn't that seem low? I need to go back to school to figure this stuff out! LOL

[Mishka68]

oh, and thanks soooo much for your input. I really appreciate it!!

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by Mishka68

interestingly, my thyroid test came back as 1.17 -- doesn't that seem low? I need to go back to school to figure this stuff out! LOL

Hmmm...not sure. I know that there are a lot of very helpful posters on the boards in that regard. I do recall that the thyroid test should include T3 & T4.....maybe more. A more detailed test.

You are welcome in answering your posts

[suthrn grl]

Ok.. I have a very general question because I don't have more details right now.
My sister started low carb eating about 6 months ago and in her recent bloodwork her total cholesterol went up (her Total was already around 200). She is freaking out. Doesnt want to go on statins. I will get more numbers from her later... and post them. But is this normal?
Thanks for any help!!

[JuneCC]

These two videos would be good to watch.

I Have High Cholesterol, and I Don't Care (Part I) - YouTube

I Have High Cholesterol, and I Don't Care (Part II) -...

[Stevie Renee]

Originally Posted by suthrn grl

Ok.. I have a very general question because I don't have more details right now.
My sister started low carb eating about 6 months ago and in her recent bloodwork her total cholesterol went up (her Total was already around 200). She is freaking out. Doesnt want to go on statins. I will get more numbers from her later... and post them. But is this normal?
Thanks for any help!!

Sherri..

she needs to read, read, read. Start at Dr William Davis blog. Also, unless we see her numbers, so hard to figure out what is what.

LDL usually spikes but that is because low carb/high fat causes the LDL particle size to shift to fat fluffy kinds...the protective kind. So that is possible. She needs a VAP or NMR test to really know. The total chol number is no longer the marker as to what to look for anymore. It is more about ratios.

Want to get her numbers to check it out & post?

[Domino]

I got my numbers back from the doctor today. They want me to go on a statin, of course...but I told the doctor I didn't wanna. Anyway, Help me interpret this and figure out what I *really* should do!!

Current numbers:

Total chol: 259
Trig: 80
HDL: 41
VLDL: 16
LDL: 202

Pre-LC numbers:

Total: 226
Trig: 156
HDL: 34
VLDL: 31
LDL: 160

OK, so if I understand correctly, although my numbers are in fact higher overall, it isn't as dire as my doctor is making it out to be? So, now what? Right now, my only supplementation is a multi-vitamin, alpha lipoid acid/acetyl l-carnitine and chromium. None of that does anything for cholesterol, so, what can I add that will help? I've heard of niacin helping LDL, is that right? I'm planning on adding a fish oil or some kind of omega 3 supplement.