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Old 09-19-2010, 01:51 PM   #1
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Struggling with fruit restriction. Will one piece throw me out of ketosis?

Is one apple really going to kick me out of ketosis?
I don't think I can stay in ketosis much longer with fruit restrictions. My body craves the watery clean nutrition. All the protein and fats are making me feel like I need a cleanse.

If you've stayed in ketosis eating fruit, or been kicked out yet continue to lose weight, please tell me how. I love the concept of low carb dieting, but am not sure if fruit carbs really count?
TIA!
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:39 PM   #2
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My sister eats "some" lower carb fruit and she is in deep deep ketosis. She eats plums, oranges and I'm not sure what else. She just stays around 20-30 grams of carbs per day.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:44 PM   #3
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I ate a small cantaloupe and a nectarine at the end of August.

I gained four pounds, undoing my loss for over a month. And even now, I've only lost 2 of those 4 pounds back, even though I'm doing induction level carbs and not a lot of calories.

Some people are more sensitive to sugar than others.

Of course fruit carbs count! Fruit is nature's candy bars. Natural wild fruit is rare, small, and not nearly as sweet as what we get today. Our fruit has been bred for hundreds of years to have a higher and higher sugar content.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:56 AM   #4
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When I am craving fresh fruit I go to this site - http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ - to check the number of carbs in whatever I am craving.

If I keep the carb number very low and do not eat any other carbs that day, I do not see a difference in my weight loss.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:43 AM   #5
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Thanks for all of the responses. This is the part I don't get- as quoted from a previous poster-

I ate a small cantaloupe and a nectarine at the end of August.

I gained four pounds, undoing my loss for over a month. And even now, I've only lost 2 of those 4 pounds back, even though I'm doing induction level carbs and not a lot of calories.

Some people are more sensitive to sugar than others.


I don't understand the 4 lb. gain. I mean, that would be over 12,000 calories needing to be consumed- and you only had one cantaloupe and a nectarine. Does that mean you gained all water? Or, does it mean the weight you "lost" prior to eating the fruit was only water and not really fat? I guess the math here with Atkins doesn't make sense. I get how carbs trigger insulin and fat storage, but either way, a pound is still 3500 calories, right- or not?
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:42 AM   #6
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cmlcmom, people handle carbs very differently. I ate cantaloupe, peaches, nectarines, grapes, cherries, plums and sweet corn over the course of the summer and did fine. I'm maintaining, though, and last year when I was still in weight loss mode, I did not eat summer fruits like that.

Fruit carbs DO count. In Phase Two: Ongoing Weight Loss, people start trying berries and melon pretty early on, in controlled portions. Higher-carb fruits don't come 'til later.

Even if your weight loss wasn't affected negatively by eating fruit, there is another thing to consider: the sweetness of fruit can trigger cravings for some people, and throw you off your game.

If you are missing crisp, juicy, fresh, light foods, I recommend you try cucumber slices, jicama, radishes, and celery. Cucumber in particular appeals to me when I want something cool and crisp and light. Jicama has a texture similar to an apple but is much lower in carbs.
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Old 09-21-2010, 12:45 AM   #7
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Hmm, well, the almighty google says an apple has 21g of carb on average.

Everyone has their own level of carbs they stick to and know works for them. But it's not just about the amount of carbs but also how spread out they all are.

Ideally, carbs should be spread out throughout the day, if you eat 21g of carb at once that has the potential to knock you out as it is all being absorbed in one hit. So even if your personal carb limit is 40g in a day, having an apple could flick the switch back.

The advantage of fruit over processed sugary foods is that fruit contains 'fructose' which is absorbed much slower than regular sugar, it is also sweeter than regular sugar too so you get more bang for your buck :P.

If you had willpower, you could cut up an apple, and eat it very gradually over the whole day (probably best to put it in the fridge :P). That would help prevent the carb spike. But there is no guarantee..

Cucumber is a very good idea.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:09 AM   #8
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Stephen, did I see in the Main Lobby that you're 19?

Good to see a younger person who is interested in the nutrition behind responsible, healthy low-carbing.

You're right about spreading out your carbs; this matters more for some than for others (depending upon blood sugar sensitivity, insulin response and other things). Fruit does have fiber, and eating it with some fat--like an ounce of cheese or 2 Tbsp nut butter--can also help reduce the impact of those natural fruit sugars.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:56 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by cmlcmom View Post
Is one apple really going to kick me out of ketosis?
I don't think I can stay in ketosis much longer with fruit restrictions. My body craves the watery clean nutrition. All the protein and fats are making me feel like I need a cleanse.

If you've stayed in ketosis eating fruit, or been kicked out yet continue to lose weight, please tell me how. I love the concept of low carb dieting, but am not sure if fruit carbs really count?
TIA!
I was very afraid of fruit when I was in the weightloss phase. My guess is it would throw you out of ketosis. Now that I'm pretty much in Maintenance I like a piece of fruit everyday or at least berries. I believe berries are one of the first "fruits" on the Atkins OWL.
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:28 PM   #10
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If you are craving "watery clean nutrition" what sticks out at me is maybe you are craving water. Do you get enough water?
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlcmom View Post
Is one apple really going to kick me out of ketosis?
I don't think I can stay in ketosis much longer with fruit restrictions. My body craves the watery clean nutrition. All the protein and fats are making me feel like I need a cleanse.

If you've stayed in ketosis eating fruit, or been kicked out yet continue to lose weight, please tell me how. I love the concept of low carb dieting, but am not sure if fruit carbs really count?
TIA!
Have you read anything about the health of a low carb diet? I'm wondering if you might need more information about low carb being healthy. There is considerable research that suggests that eating low carb is a preferred health style.

Now, my anecdotal story. When I try to tweak or change a proven, known diet style, I usually go down a path that leads me to less weight loss.

In the case of fruit early on in my weight loss attempt(s), I fail to *break* the carb/sugar/insulin cycle that makes me want to eat and overeat.

I do believe a healed body can handle fruit, but in the early stages, my body is not healed.

I encourage you to do some research. What plan are you trying to follow?
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cmlcmom View Post
Thanks for all of the responses. This is the part I don't get- as quoted from a previous poster-

I ate a small cantaloupe and a nectarine at the end of August.

I gained four pounds, undoing my loss for over a month. And even now, I've only lost 2 of those 4 pounds back, even though I'm doing induction level carbs and not a lot of calories.

Some people are more sensitive to sugar than others.


I don't understand the 4 lb. gain. I mean, that would be over 12,000 calories needing to be consumed- and you only had one cantaloupe and a nectarine. Does that mean you gained all water? Or, does it mean the weight you "lost" prior to eating the fruit was only water and not really fat? I guess the math here with Atkins doesn't make sense. I get how carbs trigger insulin and fat storage, but either way, a pound is still 3500 calories, right- or not?
what it means is that our bodies are a lot more complicated than that simple calorie model implies. I don't know how it managed to do it, but this is my guess:

my body wants to hold on to its fat very badly

fat is stored as triglycerides

triglycerides are three fatty acids glued together with a substance called alpha glycerol phosphate, which is a byproduct of carb metabolism

if you don't eat carbs, you don't have much of that and your body has a very hard time storing fat

when I ate that fruit, my body JUMPED on the possibility of storing fat and went into very high gear using the carbs to make triglycerides and store them

most people don't have this sort of messed up metabolism, but a LOT of people do.

I was just warning that even though 99 people say they can eat some fruit just fine, some of us have to be really really careful.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The advantage of fruit over processed sugary foods is that fruit contains 'fructose' which is absorbed much slower than regular sugar, it is also sweeter than regular sugar too so you get more bang for your buck :P.
the current idea seems to be that fructose is actually MUCH worse than sucrose, because it does bad things to the liver that result in more problems down the line. the reaction is not as immediate as the insulin response to sucrose, so people thought in the past it was better, but it's not. this is the whole issue with high fructose corn syrup. that is only about half fructose, just like table sugar is. the fructose in fruit is exactly the same thing.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:07 AM   #14
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I have been able to do fruit well when I hit on one rule... don't do fruit without fat! And you do have to measure, weight is best, but if not by the cup. A small catalope is actually a lot of carbs. I cycle higher carbs on the weekend (about20-25; 10 during the week) so that is when I get my fruit. I was very discouraged when I first started incorporating fruit, either .5 gain or no loss, everytime. I was only eating about 7 carbs of fruit. Then I read from another poster (if I could remember, I would credit them) about not eating fruit by itself, but with fat due to the way fruit metabolizes. So, usually on the weekends I do fruit with my breakfast, or sometimes as my breakfast. If with my breakfast, plenty of butter, cheese, etc. If it is my breakfast alone, I take a teaspoon of coconut oil before I eat the fruit. Since I started combining, I have not had any problem. HTH
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:14 AM   #15
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BTW: My sister decided to eat a low carb yogurt and BAM ketosis gone. Its amazing how fast it happens. Yes I know yogurt isn't on the list but she isn't always listening to me but think she might now. LOL!!
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:34 AM   #16
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A little off topic . . .

I was at the grocery store yesterday and as I was walking down the isles I suddenly felt like I was in an animated cartoon. I was seeing all the processed foods popping out in front of me filled with their preservatives, additives, and unlisted flavors and seasonings. It was a little different in the produce section because I could feel the preservatives that coated many of the produce. And who knows about the chemical content of produce coming into the States from foreign countries.

I live in a county where cow production is probably the second biggest income to gas royalties for those lucky enough to have inherited their ancestors land with mineral rights. I KNOW that many cows go onto feed lots before butchering even through they have been range feed on our poor grasses out here.

I don't care what anyone says, but I do not for one second trust any label on any food product sold in this country, or any scientific study result. If you took stats in college you know that EVERY study can be titled to go in the direction of the researcher no matter what the public is told.

Unless we can go back in time when mom did not have to work and prepared our meals, I think we have to do the best we can do to try to stay healthy.

What works for one person may not work for another. Our bodies are complicated and altered by the medications and food we put into them, so claimed natural or not, as well as what we breathe inside and outside our homes.

Okay then . . . I am going to get off my soap box before I fall off of it.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:50 AM   #17
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I love fruit too and I've had a little bit of fruit even during induction and still lost but I don't have it every day and when I do have it, it is a garnish or a snack, not a lot.

That is my disagreement with the paleo / neanderthin diet which is actually a good diet otherwise. I don't believe cavemen found fruit very often, how could they? And when they did they had to share? A portion of fruit is most likely a handful of berries or a small sliver of melon. It is not ok to eat a pound of grapes or three oranges or five nectarines. Fructose has a lot of sugar and will send your blood sugar way up.

If you really want fruit, add a few strawberries on the side of your omelet, next day a sliver of melon with your tuna salad. I wouldn't eat it every meal, or eat it alone (as someone else said, eat with fat) or even every day though until you determine how it effects your body. I can eat small occasional portions without it effecting anything at all but everyone's body is different. And check the carb counts, I've had the best luck with strawberries and raspberries. Also cantaloupe has been ok too. I have avoided things like nectarines, plums, oranges, cherries entirely, too much sugar.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:25 AM   #18
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It sure is complicated trying to figure out my limits! I am doing Atkins- moving to OWL, but I cant seem to add anything without gaining or stopping my loss altogether. After indulging in 3 honeycrisp apples in just two days, I am up 4 lbs. even though I am back in ketosis. It's been nearly 6 days, no loss. I'm hoping this is just water weight It's a bummer when you actually gain 4 lbs. from eating fruit. Of all things. Id rather have eaten cake!
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:21 PM   #19
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i didn't read all the posts here (sorry; its' late and i'm tired), so i don't know what everone else said, but i will say i think everyone's body is different. i'm just getting into owl and not currently doing any fruit. but i know i am a "fast-burner".

years ago when i first got into LCing (and before i got out of it and ganied lots of weight!), i had fruit each morning and lost tons of weight. i actually lost so much weight that i could handle fruit at each meal. i used to have 3 apples a day and i weighed 100 pounds. don't know if that will be the case today as i'm older, but i hope so! we're all different though so it depends on how metabolically resistant you are.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlcmom View Post
Is one apple really going to kick me out of ketosis?
I don't think I can stay in ketosis much longer with fruit restrictions. My body craves the watery clean nutrition. All the protein and fats are making me feel like I need a cleanse.

If you've stayed in ketosis eating fruit, or been kicked out yet continue to lose weight, please tell me how. I love the concept of low carb dieting, but am not sure if fruit carbs really count?
TIA!
Sigh. You *really* need to *just stick to the plan* if you want to succeed.

No apples. No.

Apple wreaks havoc with your blood sugar and will put you right onto craving other sweet stuff.

You need to bear with it and DRINK WATER if you think you need watery clean nutrition.

READ THE BOOK. It is the most important thing you can do and do not eat anything not on the allowed foods list.

Apple is not on there, do not eat it.

Or: Go low fat/calories counting and eat apples.

However: They do not work on this diet, they WILL mess up your lipolysis and you will stall.

There is no two ways about it.

ETA: Sorry if the above came across harsh - but this really is a WOL that only works if you follow the plan. :-)

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Old 10-05-2010, 07:28 AM   #21
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I mostly eat berries in a smoothie, this year the peaches were so darned good I ate one a couple of times a week instead of my vegetables.

I occaisionally want an apple, too, and eat it with peanut butter.

You really have to do what's right for your body. I stay around 40-60 carbs a day and am still losing.

Gees, I'd rather give in to a crave for fresh fruit than give in to a crave for a donut.
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Old 10-05-2010, 08:50 AM   #22
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well. .. I was recently given the okay by my doctor to add 15 carbs to my 20g a day limit and that could include fruit. I was SO HAPPY!! I have missed fruit more than anything. . . first stop was 8 whole strawberries. Straight outta ketosis. But I convinced myself that it was a fluke. next, half an apple with peanut butter. Again, no ketosis. Um, perhaps i am seeing a pattern. next day, watermelon. .. next day, no ketosis. So, yeah, back to induction level carbs and no fruit. . .straight back into ketosis. My doctor told me this might happen. . .I started this woe because of hyperinsulinemia . . .and she said that I might not be able to handle the fructose because of it and I can't. booo. but as much as I love and miss fruit, I love and miss seeing my toes more so. . .back to the drawing board. Does this mean that I can NEVER have fruit again? no, it just means that I can't have it now, until my body is healed. I am okay with it.
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:25 AM   #23
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I mostly eat berries in a smoothie, this year the peaches were so darned good I ate one a couple of times a week instead of my vegetables.

I occaisionally want an apple, too, and eat it with peanut butter.

You really have to do what's right for your body. I stay around 40-60 carbs a day and am still losing.

Gees, I'd rather give in to a crave for fresh fruit than give in to a crave for a donut.
I see what you're saying - and your rate of loss is obviously acceptable to you - and that's wonderful! Slow but steady wins the race! However, unless I misread your stats, you're losing about 2lbs a month which is REALLY good (!!!) but not good enough for me personally - if you see what I mean.

Also, I am of the mind that if one gives into one craving, it's just as easy to give in to another - but maybe that's just my opinion.

I don't really have cravings and I was given to understand that people doing Atkins (I know there are other LC plans, but I do not know what they say re cravings) do not or at least should not be having cravings because they should be satiated.

I think what some people take as a craving is missing water and/or missing vitamins/minerals/salts.

Anyway, I think that people can do whatever they can live with and that is totally up to them and I in NO WAY think that fruit is "bad" or anything and I LOVE fruit - but: Right now, when I want to lose at good a clip as possible, fruit is out.

All the best!
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:55 PM   #24
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Think about this.

When does mother nature give us fruit? Right before the starvation season. In the temperate zones the fruit ripens before winter, and here in Florida, it ripens right before the dry season.

So the fruit is a device for the hunter-gatherer to put on weight before the starvation season comes. But we no longer have a starvation season thanks to refrigerators and preserving methods.

You just have to figure what works for you and stick to it. I lost 50 pounds at the turn of the century, and I don't intend to put it back on again. The cravings for apples, pasta, or whatever have to be understood as part mental and you just have to change.

Some people can eat apples, if I do I gain a pound or two, so if my weight isn't on the low side of my 5 pound range, I don't eat apples.

It can't be thought of as a diet, but a way of life.

Do you want to be fat or slim?

I know it's hard, but if you want to, you can do it.

How much can you eat? Nobody knows but you, we are all different and have different levels to stay in maintenance.

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Old 04-13-2011, 11:03 AM   #25
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Incorporate one to two carbs worth of fruit each day into meals. Dice up a slice of fresh fruit to give you the fresh crisp flavor, but no spike in insulin to effect your fat burning or cravings.

Blood orange infused avocado oil in homemade salad dressing or dips, is great for that awesome taste of orange without any sugar. Herbs are wonderful to freshen up your diet, as well as sprigs of chives or green onion, lime juice, etc.

I drink red wine with low carb pasta (Dreamfields), and it is the ultimate satisfaction on the restricted Adkins diet. Red wine never inhibits my weight loss (half pound a day on 20 or less carbs) but one glass of white ruins it. I don't crave sugars at all because I drink wine with dinner and it still allows me to lose weight as well as make the meal much more luxurious. I do have to balance the carbs though for maximum effectiveness. If I add fruit, it's better to do leaner meats in the recipe.

Adding lime juice to your diet coke or seltzer water can really give you that fresh crisp taste throughout the day as well. Eat a slice of lime or lemon if you really need a fix.
I also drink bloody mary's on induction or tequila with lots of lime juice. In the summer it's great and never effects the ketosis. A small bowl of whip cream with four berries, for dessert, is surprisingly satisfying when you can know you're adding fruit without guilt.

The best thing for the "fresh and watery" balance is salads though. So good for you and tasty (hot bacon and strawberry slivers, crumbles of almonds, ect) with fish, lean steak, chicken or grilled shrimp. That, I would recommend every day. Good luck!

Just keep the fruit to 1 or 2 carbs worth, each day, and the veggies to 10 carbs worth and you should be fine and probably satisfied. Mixing things ahead allows the small amounts of flavor to marinate and really enhances the taste, plus saves time.

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