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Old 01-31-2009, 12:18 PM   #1
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Atkins Stage 2: Ongoing Weight Loss

I started Induction on January 3rd, and am ready to move into Phase Two.

I've never made a deliberate and planned move into OWL before...last time I did Atkins, several years ago, I stayed more or less on Induction indefinitely. I went up a little bit in carbs, but didn't take the time to follow Dr. Atkins' recommended Carbohydrate Ladder. This time I want to do it by the book, following the Rule of Five and introducing additional carbohydrates in the order specified for OWL:

1. More salad and vegetables on the Acceptable Foods list

2. Fresh cheeses (as well as more aged cheese)

3. Seeds and nuts

4. Berries

5. Wine and other spirits low in carbs

6. Legumes

7. Fruits other than berries and melons

8. Starchy vegetables

9. Whole grains

The Power of Five means you are adding five grams per day of carbs from the introduced foods. You are not supposed to add more than one new kind of food per week.


Anyone else ready to graduate from Induction and begin the task of learning how to eat for the rest of our lives? I'm excited about this, and hope there will be some other people doing OWL too.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:23 PM   #2
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Hey Peanutte,
I'm here with ya! What are you going to start with? I decided to start with Strawberries with real whipped cream and splenda on them.
Let me know!!!
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:09 AM   #3
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Hi, evern!

Well, I actually had started upping my salad vegetables a bit, two weeks ago, and this past week I had a little more cheese than usual.

I have some almonds for this next week.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:31 PM   #4
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Thank you for this thread. I never see a lot regarding OWL and this is great for me as I am going to make the switch from Induction to OWL in the near future.
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:10 PM   #5
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Hi, Sun!

I have to admit, I feel really uncertain and hesitant trying to do this, because it's so easy just to stick to Induction levels. I have a certain amount of fear that I won't continue to lose weight. That's just silly, isn't it?

In addition to the big salad I had earlier in the day, I had broccoli with dinner tonight--about 2 cups, cooked. With my fabulous easiest-ever cheese sauce, and a hamburger patty. My carbs ended up being 25 net g for the day which is exactly what I'm supposed to be aiming for.

Note: I had a lot more to eat that just the salad and my dinner! I just realized that sounded like I barely ate anything, which isn't true, as in fact I had about 1650 calories today. My percentages were 67% fat, 25% protein, 9% carbs. I'm uneasy seeing that 9% number, but I can't sit around obsessing over this.

One thing to keep in mind is that starting on OWL doesn't mean you can have lots of these new foods as you climb the carb ladder. According to the book, we're supposed to keep to the Rule of Five and not introduce more than one category at a time. starting with more vegetables.
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:15 PM   #6
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I've been on OWL since last June. I've discovered that my weight loss stops if I add fruit. More cheese and more nuts are just fine. For me, if my program doesn't have enough fat, I just get stuck. My doc teases me to just keep enjoying the butter as long as the pounds go down and the numbers stay low. I figure that after reaching goal and right before maintaince, it would be a good time to try one piece of fruit a week.
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:58 PM   #7
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hey guys,
ok...i'm feeling a bit uncomfortable without my strict guidelines. I LIKE the rigidity and structure. I dont care that I only eat the same 5 foods all the time!! (ok maybe a little)
I am freaking out a bit because I am due for my TOM and I know I will be kicked out of ketosis and I'm gonna want to start on induction again and if I'm eating almonds I can't be!!!!
Ugh....can you tell i'm pre-menstrual?
I added in some chinese vegetables today to my regimine. If I am out of ketosis tommorrow i'm gonna be a mess. I just know it!

Wow this is kinda scary huh? 3 yrs I've been strict to induction and now look at me....a mess over some chinese cabbage!
It will be nice to change things up a bit.

I did want to add that almonds are very hard to stop eating, and I prefer macadamia nuts as they are lower in carbs. I have eaten them once in a while but if I start stalling, i stop eating them.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:09 AM   #8
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evern, I really hear you--that's what I meant when I said I'm struggling with loosening up a little. It's almost easier just to stay really limited on Induction.

Hi, diva! I'm glad you posted. It's so good to hear from someone who has been doing OWL for a good long while.

I'm going to be out of town and away from the computer all week, but everybody hang in there, and I'll look forward to checking in this weekend!
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:39 PM   #9
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The way I look at it is that if Induction level carbs and allowed foods was the most successful way to lose and keep the weight off, then that would be the entire diet. But it's not. The diet as described in the book must be the one that worked for the largest percentage of people who were Dr Atkins' patients before he published his book, since of course he's going to write the book about the most successful version of the diet!

And if you can follow my logic there... you're doing well.

OWL is a learning process, figuring out what you can eat and can't eat. Learning what triggers problems, or stalls you. Retraining your eating habits for life. Tailoring Atkins to your tastes and lifestyle.

It's definitely easier to reintroduce foods gradually, so you can assess each one as you go. Stay on Induction only foods until goal and what do you do then for maintenance? Add them all back at once, and find you've got a problem and have no idea which food is causing it?

Don't fear OWL! And why deprive yourself of good, nutritious foods that you could have incorporated in your diet with no problems?
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evern83 View Post
hey guys,
[COLOR="Red"]ok...i'm feeling a bit uncomfortable without my strict guidelines. [/COLOR] I LIKE the rigidity and structure. I dont care that I only eat the same 5 foods all the time!! (ok maybe a little)
I am freaking out a bit because I am due for my TOM and I know I will be kicked out of ketosis and I'm gonna want to start on induction again and if I'm eating almonds I can't be!!!!
Ugh....can you tell i'm pre-menstrual?
I added in some chinese vegetables today to my regimine. If I am out of ketosis tommorrow i'm gonna be a mess. I just know it!

Wow this is kinda scary huh? 3 yrs I've been strict to induction and now look at me....a mess over some chinese cabbage!
It will be nice to change things up a bit.

I did want to add that almonds are very hard to stop eating, and I prefer macadamia nuts as they are lower in carbs. I have eaten them once in a while but if I start stalling, i stop eating them.
Well then you are lucky you are doing OWL.
Read the 2002 DANDR and you will see it has almost as many rules ofr doing OWL as it does for induction.
first we don't get to pick and choose from the power of 5. We have to do them in order from more of those yummy induction veggies climbing the ladder as slow as we want to the last rung grains. If we have a problem with a food rung we punt it and try anothert for now and they retry it at goal weight or premaintnenace as oceandiva is doing with fruits.

There are even strick rules about how often you can have that new to you food the first week you consume it. There is a typo in chapter 14 per Dr Atkins office staff in 2002 and rule 5 of page 179 should say eat a new food (not a new food group) no more then 3 times per week to start.
and that aplies to any new to your Atkins food even if you are beyond that rung when you add it.

We get to add as many different foods from each rung as we want to until we have tested all the foods from it we want to and then we move to the next one as slowly or as rapidly as we want. Some folk add abck more of the veggies, fresh dairy, nutsandseeds and/or berries and squat on the ladder for months never climbing higher till they get to premaintnenace.



If your CCLL is low you have 3 choices.

1) You can swap out some of your already tested and added carb gram rungs for higher ones as you climb such as if your CCLL was 30 and you have added back more induction veggies and fresh dairy and don't have 5 more grams to add you can still go to the nuts and seeds rung but you would only have 25 grams of the carsb you have already aquired and then 5 grams of nuts or seeds.
2) You can just be happy with just those 2 rungs and wait for premaintnenance to add more ( not something I'd recommned)
0r
3) increase your exercise duration and intensitiy. As you can see in the estimated CCLL charts in chapter 14 of DANDR 2002 vigorous exercise can significantly increase your CCLL and CCLM. When I workout doing the BFL lifting program and the HIIT treadmill program for an hour a day I can consume over 110 net grams of carbs but when I don't it is back to 45 for me.

It even tells us when you have to move to premaintenance unlike with induction leaving for us the individual got to pick when to move

So if you like structure and rules you will love DANDR 2002 OWL

Happy OWLing.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:03 PM   #11
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Wow thanks for all this great info. I have contemplated back and forth whether or not I should just do induction for 2 weeks and move on. I am in my second week and I am still very undecided if I should move into OWL next week. I really really love vegetables and find I have to limit myself and I think it's a big reason I want to move to OWL so I can actually have some more vegetables. I'm probably going to be thinking about this for the rest of the week....
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:08 PM   #12
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if you have DANDR 2002 there are questions in chapter 13 you can ask yourself. if you answer yes to any of them Dr Atkins recommneds you move on to OWL so if you decide to do an extended induction ask yourself those questions every day and when you do answer one yes make the move.

Some folk lose better in OWL then they did in induction too so don't think of induction as the only way afterall OWL is called ongoing weight loss not stop weight loss.
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:25 AM   #13
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Wow thanks for all this great info. I have contemplated back and forth whether or not I should just do induction for 2 weeks and move on. I am in my second week and I am still very undecided if I should move into OWL next week. I really really love vegetables and find I have to limit myself and I think it's a big reason I want to move to OWL so I can actually have some more vegetables. I'm probably going to be thinking about this for the rest of the week....
Yeah, though I'm a believer in going on to OWL at some point, I do think an extended Induction is fine too, just not all the way to goal. You're going to have to go through some equivalent to OWL eventually, adding things back in to your diet - unless you're going to be on Induction forever! So why not do it using the guidence of the book, so you have a road map that's helped many other people before you.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:46 AM   #14
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think about Atkins as building a house of food you will live in for the rest of your life. DANDR is your blueprint and you are both the buyer and contractor for the construction of this house.
Induction is your foundation on which your house will sit. Hopefully you build it strong with the right mix of whole natural foods as Dr Atkins wrote it and you mix it well with adaquet water and needed vits and minerals to strengthen it. Then you let it cure so it will be solid. Some folk are in a hurry and cure the foundation the minimum 14 days while others work on a longer cure doing extended induction.

But eventually you got to move on to the framing (OWL).
there are lots of building materials choices on the carb ladder and you need to inspect each type of timber carefully to be sure it will be compatable with your needs and wants. If you need lots of variety you don't want to only use veggies from induction as your framing.

Once you get all those timbers sorted and inspected for quality and a well built frame you will need to move on to the roofing trusses and materials ( Premaintnenance)
Agaon they will be load bearing and need to last a life time so you want to be sure you take the time as Dr Atkins recommends to slowly complet the roofing and get ready to move in at Maintnenace. there you will do the finishing work to make your house of Atkins livable for the rest of your life.

Hopefully you will have taken the time to make the investment in your House of Atkins to withstand a life time of events and changes without any repair work needed and you will live at goal weight in your Atkins house forever.

and of course that gorgeous landscaping you are doing is the mandatory exercise part of your Atkins.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:33 AM   #15
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Thanks everyone! I think I probably will move onto OWL on Monday which will be the end of my 2 weeks on induction. I don't have a ton of weight to lose as it is and I do want to make sure I do it right to so I can maintain. Besides I would really love to start adding some other foods in that I know you can't have right now on induction. I have read DANDR and in fact I keep the book in my purse just in case I need to refer to it. When I decided to do atkins after reading through it, I don't think I had ever intended to do induction longer than the two weeks anyways.
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:04 PM   #16
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Just wanted to add my 2 pennies in on this...Ive always been horrified of moving on to OWL, so ive always stayed on induction...and ive always blown it. this time around ( my 100th ) i made the leap and started adding more veggies and im so glad i did. it took me a week or two to figure it out but i went back to the book and did some reading and things are going well so far.
2big4mysize, your reply was awesome, that really put things into perspective thank you for that!
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:04 PM   #17
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This might seem like a silly question but I've got a few recipes I want to try out in the coming weeks and there are some that call for almond flour. Can I use that once I get to the nuts stage? I am assuming that would be the most logical time to try it since almond flour is made out of almonds. Just wondering since I think I am gonna order it online and I don't want to order until I am ready to use it which wouldn't be for a few weeks at least. Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #18
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yep almond flour is just fine ground blanched almonds. You can grind your own in a coffee mill or food processor but it will be a courser grind. if you sift it you can get a fine grind but you lose all the goodness of the antioxidents and flavinoids in the almond skins. Many folk just use the course ground nuts and know their texture will be off a bit from the fine texture of almond flour.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:23 PM   #19
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I enjoy using almond flour or other nut flours that I make by grinding them in my small coffee grinder. They make good pancakes, cupcakes, cookies etc.. It's a relief to find this source for cooking and baking since flour of any kind irrates my system. I've never tried the store bought almond flour because of the expense and it's easeir for me to keep the carb count by using just the amount that fits in my grinder.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:53 PM   #20
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Hey 2big,
thanks for the analogy. Fits perfectly. I think I might take your suggestion and look at the 2002 OWL. I really like it strict and that sounds like the right way to go for me. I'll keep ya updated.
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:35 PM   #21
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Hi all!

I did really well all during the week when I was visiting my sister. I didn't eat a single thing that was off-plan, but I didn't make a big deal out of declining things, either. I was hoping for more than the 1.2 pound loss I had for the week, but it's okay.

It was my week to add nuts and I had brought some little jars of almonds with me, so I used those for a snack on a few days. I think I had less than an ounce each time I had them. I'm not a person who has a hard time limiting nuts.

I'm glad to be home though...I prefer the variety of foods that is available when I'm cooking for myself. One thing I did on my trip was go to Target and buy three bags of Romaine salad and a package of boneless skinless chicken thighs. I cooked all the chicken and that way I had it ready for my dinners all week. My carbs were mostly in the form of a daily salad, and a few small portions of broccoli some nights. I know I was eating nowhere near 25 grams a day--more like 10-15--but it was the best I could do under the circumstances.
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Old 02-08-2009, 06:59 AM   #22
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welcome back and congrats on realizing we do not take a vacation from our Atkins when we go on vacation.


And woo hoo on that 1.2 pounds of your body fat being vaporized on vacation.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:42 AM   #23
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we do not take a vacation from our Atkins when we go on vacation.

2big, I was mentally prepared for that. There were all sorts of carby, sugary foods around but I just wasn't interested--it's not worth it to me!
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:56 AM   #24
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Well I made it through induction. I lost 8.6 pounds in those two weeks plus 2 pounds the first 3 weeks of january..so down 10.6 pounds since the first of the year. I am starting OWL today so I am upping my carbs to 25grams with the extra 5 coming from vegetables. I cannot wait to grill up some onions tonight to go on my italian sausage!
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:28 AM   #25
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Way to go, kerbear! That's a really great result from Induction.

P.S.Hey--you live in my area! I'm in Broomfield.

I'm making my cauliflower hash browns this morning. They're very appropriate for either Induction or OWL depending upon how much cauliflower you care to use. Let me tell you, this is a GOOD recipe and easy to make.

10 ounces cauliflower, weighed raw

2 eggs

1 ounce shredded cheddar cheese

1/2 Tbsp dried chives

Steam cauliflower till quite soft (I just use a bowl in the microwave). Press firmly with paper towels to remove excess liquid. Set aside in fridge to cool down.

When cool, mash cauliflower roughly in a mixing bowl.

Add beaten eggs, shredded cheese, and chives.

Add a little salt and pepper if desired.

Scoop half of the mixture onto a piece of plastic wrap, shape into a patty and wrap tightly. Repeat with second half. Chill for about an hour.

Fry "hashbrown" patties in 2 Tbsp butter or Smart Balance or whatever you usually use. Fry until nicely browned and crisp on both sides.

I bet you could skip the chilling part, but I'm of the opinion that it makes them "set up" better and hold their shape.

If you're making a smaller batch, use 7 ounces cauliflower, and only 1 egg.

Calories for "big batch" (using 10 ounces cauliflower): 421/ carbs: 18.1 / fiber:7.1/ net carbs 11

Calories for "small batch" (using 7 ounces cauliflower): 399/ carbs: 12.6 fiber: 5.0/ net carbs: 7.6

Calorie counts include 2 Tbsp Smart Balance. I also count eggs as having 1 g carbs. Some people count eggs as only having .6 each. Adjust accordingly.

Last edited by peanutte; 02-09-2009 at 07:41 AM..
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:00 AM   #26
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Well I made it through induction. I lost 8.6 pounds in those two weeks plus 2 pounds the first 3 weeks of january..so down 10.6 pounds since the first of the year. I am starting OWL today so I am upping my carbs to 25grams with the extra 5 coming from vegetables. I cannot wait to grill up some onions tonight to go on my italian sausage!
woo hoo congrats on shedding that weight forever.


Peanutte looks yummy. If you have a picturee of them please add it to the OWL PORN food topic. I hope that topic gets as populare as the induction porn foods topic is becoming.
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:11 AM   #27
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I didn't take a photo, but they look like latkes (potato pancakes).
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:17 AM   #28
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How's everybody doing? OWLing along?
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:54 AM   #29
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Peanutte, yep we are close. I actually live out by the airport so not far at all. I cannot wait for the time change soon so I can start walking outside again!

Doing okay on OWL so far although I am finding it a little difficult to hit that 25 grams. I get to have two salads today and grilled onions with my italian sausage tonight. YAY!! I'm really looking forward to adding some fruit in. I love strawberries and they are gonna be right in season here really soon!

I'm thinking I should really try the cauliflower recipes everyone has on here. I keep thinking it's gonna really taste like cauliflower (not a big fan..). Maybe I will try making up something with it this weekend. The pizza with the cauliflower crust that I saw on here looks really good.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:06 PM   #30
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Start Date: 01/03/09
kerbear, it's hard for me to say because I like the flavor of cauliflower, so I don't know how these things taste to others who aren't big fans of that vegetable. I do think that the chives and cheese and egg in my hash browns make the cauliflower flavor less obvious. But see, some people find that whole group of veggies--cauliflower, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage, etc--to be awful-tasting and it's because of the way they taste things. What I mean is, it's not just a matter of being picky--they really do taste things differently than some other people do.

I don't know if you're close enough that you ever shop at Sprouts, kerbear, but they have a great sale price on blackberries right now. Those are among the lower-carb of all the berries.
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