Atkins Stage 2: Ongoing Weight Loss

[2big4mysize]

You do know that eating atkins you will be adding lean body mass even as you shed body fat so you will be smaller in size at a heavier weight as you are seeing in your smaller clothes fitting at scale heavier pounds. Folk have a hard time believing I weight more then 170 pounds and I have a hard time believing they think I'm skinny at 170 pounds. I even had folk worrying I was going to get anorexic at 170 pounds and I should stop my weight loss before I called goal. it is strange how we have our fat goggles welded to our faces and even when we get smaller can't get them off.

[peanutte]

That's definitely true, 2big. I look different at this weight than I looked at various lower weights. In fact, I have some muscle definition on the side of my thigh, right above my knee, that I didn't have even when I was a runner! I was running regularly, and was jealous of my husband because he had that nice "cut" on the side of his thigh and I didn't. Atkins will make you leaner at the same weight that you might look doughier if you were eating carby foods. There's less "puff" covering your muscles.

I uh...lost three pounds this week. I didn't mean to and I'm of mixed feelings about that. I'll take it as a one-time post-period whoosh, but really, I was working so hard all week on household projects and yard work that I just didn't have much appetite and I underate my usual amount by about 200 calories a day. I will pay attention to that next week and have the goal of simply maintaining this loss without adding to it. I don't want or need to lose more than a pound and a half a week, generally. Not at this stage in my weight loss.

[krisminar]

Originally Posted by peanutte

I started Induction on January 3rd, and am ready to move into Phase Two.

I've never made a deliberate and planned move into OWL before...last time I did Atkins, several years ago, I stayed more or less on Induction indefinitely. I went up a little bit in carbs, but didn't take the time to follow Dr. Atkins' recommended Carbohydrate Ladder. This time I want to do it by the book, following the Rule of Five and introducing additional carbohydrates in the order specified for OWL:

1. More salad and vegetables on the Acceptable Foods list

2. Fresh cheeses (as well as more aged cheese)

3. Seeds and nuts

4. Berries

5. Wine and other spirits low in carbs

6. Legumes

7. Fruits other than berries and melons

8. Starchy vegetables

9. Whole grains

The Power of Five means you are adding five grams per day of carbs from the introduced foods. You are not supposed to add more than one new kind of food per week.


Anyone else ready to graduate from Induction and begin the task of learning how to eat for the rest of our lives? I'm excited about this, and hope there will be some other people doing OWL too.

thanks for sharing! this will be my referral

[Dovelette]

Hey peanutte, since you are rocking OWL...can you give us an overview of how each rung has gone? And are you still sticking to 25g?

[2big4mysize]

pssst peanutte being 200 cals below target would only be 1400 for a whole week hardly the reason you lost 3 whole pounds so claim them with joy.

[peanutte]

2big, I know, but the point was that I've been very active also, so have been burning more and eating less than usual. I must not have been clear about that! I've been a housework and yard work machine.

I'll certainly claim them, but I'm just saying I am very cautious about losing more than a pound a week because my eating disorder triggers can go off, and I can start toying with the idea of cutting back more and seeing how little I can get by on, if that makes sense.

Dove, I still have not moved on to starchy veggies like sweet potatoes yet...nor have I done whole grains other than a Wasa crispbread once in a while and never more than one at a time. You know how we were talking last week about "piggybacking"--not having different new foods in the same week? Well, I am at a point where I feel comfortable experimenting with moving between rungs from day to day, so lately I might go ahead and have yogurt and berries on Monday, legumes or peanut butter on Tuesday, nuts on Wednesday, etc. As long as I've been keeping to 25 net grams on the average, it doesn't seem to matter which categories I eat from. I mean, I already went through the first 6 rungs individually and it's time to move on, I think.

I find this encouraging, because it means a greater variety of combinations. I also finally feel ready to try some of those fruits and starchier vegetables from rungs 7, 8 and 9..

[2big4mysize]

hope you can add them back okay/ Make sure you got craving control stuff ready just incase. Watermelon sets me off as does more then a few slivers of pear but I can handle citrus and tropical stuff just fine.
Oh and did you know technically pineapple is a berry botanically? not that I'd recommends anybody on the berry ring try one. Just goes to show those names can be decieving.

[Dovelette]

Okay. I think it's confession time. For real.

I think, no matter how I want to sugar coat it, my downfall is continuing to be alcohol.

It seems that I can easily lose weight, even with adding in all the way to beans, if I don't drink. I'm not talking a glass of wine a couple nights a week; that seems to suit me fine as well. I'm talking weekend drinking with other volunteers and Cape Verdeans. I'm talking going to a festa or a party or whatever and fully intending to not drink, and then feeling very pressured to do so. I feel like I could withstand this pressure at home, but for whatever reason, not here.

I'm 30 years old and I'm getting peer pressured?

I am finding ways to avoid food situations that would put me in carb-ville, though it is a challenge. However, when I drink, while I don't eat carbs, I will over indulge in "on plan" things. If we're on the move and I know all there will is fries, I might have eggs for breakfast but then bring an Atkins bar for lunch. Doing that 2 days in a row gets me off track. Peanuts or me seem to be ok in moderation, like 1/4 to 1/3 a cup at a time. But when I'm out and hungry and that may be my only snack option (and remember I've been drinking) I eat too many.

I feel like I'm in this cycle of losing, drinking, gaining, moving down the carb ladder, losing, drinking, gaining, moving down the carb ladder (so I can hopefully re-lose)...I have yet to eat a real carb but I can't seem to bust the drinking cycle.

It feels there is no end in sight. This week we are in the midst of the biggest festa in all of Cape Verde, going on right outside my door. Literally. It will continue through until next Thursday. I am not seeing how I will be able to go the entire time without drinking. I don't know if it's willpower (that I seem to have with eating for the most part) or what.

Anyway, I feel like I need to put it out there on "paper" so that I'm held accountable for my actions as opposed to "blaming" it on "too many carbs on the carb ladder." I'm working on a solution for this week and getting through it. I don't think I can go "cold turkey" through the entire festa, so I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to pick one day where I enjoy some wine.

But will some wine turn into a bottle of wine over the course of the day? The festa on the "big days" will start at 9am and go til the next morning...

[peanutte]

If you enjoy drinking a couple of nights a week, then that's one thing, and I for one have nothing against that--I drink wine every weekend and have been for months. If, on the other hand, you would just as soon NOT, but feel like you "have to" because of your situation and the peer pressure, than we need to come up with some practice phrases for you to not feel pressured into doing something you don't want to do.

I would guess it's the bars more than the weekend drinking, but I know you need to rely on those bars for navigating tricky eating situations, and I don't think you could really give them up unless you found some other reliable source of easy, portable Atkins-friendly food you can use in the same way you use the bars.

You know, Dove, it occurs to me that you could use your WLS as an excuse to not drink if you wanted to--you could say it makes alcohol affect you differently (which is true for most WLS patients, I think) and sometimes makes you feel sick (which is also true for a lot of WLS people).

[Dovelette]

I think it's amounts with me - the amount of atkins bars I have, the amount of peanuts, the amount of alcohol. I had about 5oz of wine one weekend and had no problem. Had a glass or two with dinner one night, also no problem. But more than that, and especially more than one night...AND coupled with the peanuts and the bars...it's probably the combination of this away from site with other volunteer thing that causes these situations, and they just happen to be happening a lot lately...like every weekend there is something else going on. And it ends up being an all day/night affair where we start drinking early and then late into the night. Its the excess.

The peer pressure thing, it's not that I don't want to drink - I do. But I would rather lose weight. So I would rather not drink so I can lose weight. And then it becomes the peer pressure. Of course I'm sure it's easier to persuade someone who really would rather be drinking ya know?

No one here knows I had WLS...it's just something I don't generally bring up with most people.

[peanutte]

I'm sorry--I should've considered that! Yes, I suppose it is a rather private subject for many people.

Do the drinks you have include mixers? You could try adding more club soda or whatever low-carb mixer you're using, and keep sipping the same drink for three times as long.

The peer pressure thing, it's not that I don't want to drink - I do. But I would rather lose weight.

Oh, of course I understand. If it appeared to be causing me problems or stalling me, I'd be off the weekend wine in a hot second. But in fact it's been no problem. I don't know why! In a very loose sense, I am calorie and carb cycling, because on the weekends I do not use Fitday and I know my carbs and calories are higher because of the wine, but that's fine with me. For me it's about what's sustainable AND enjoyable while continuing to lose weight.

[2big4mysize]

your fear of messing up is causing you to have what many of us call loading up cause the next meal may never come. When folk travel they are so afraid the plan with not serve stuff they can eat they pack enough to feed 4 folk and then consume it all. Try portion control, 1/2 a bar and some veggies fat and protein in snack size so you can graze if that is waht you need to do. even divid your bar in to 4 servings and view each as a full serving not 4 plannned eatings to be one serving.

[Dovelette]

2big that's not *quite* it but you gave me an Ahah. I can't eat too much in one setting because of my weight loss surgery...BUT what I am doing is "grazing" more, or "out-eating" my surgery, meaning my pouch gets full, and then it empties, usually faster because I'll drink something, and then I'll eat more sooner than I normally would at home, because it's just "snacky" so it's not like a real meal (that's what's in my head) and so I've got those peanuts on hand and I have some, they fill me up, I drink, they empty, I eat more and so on.

I can't say for sure this is what happens but it makes sense to me given how many peanuts I end up eating when I leave lol. And why when i went away for that conference and brought REAL food with me (the flax breads, the sausage slices) and ate those instead of my atkins bars and peanuts, plus chicken and veggies, I was better off.

*thinking about how to better integrate REAL food and regularly scheduled meal times with travel**

I promise eventually I'll figure it out, and I'm not willing to give up - this weekend, sme guys me and Josh hang out with were talking to me and made a comment, saying a word I couldn't understand, but tried to explain and said "You're not like you were when you came at first" so I think they were saying you've gotten thinner or more muscular or better looking lol. They also thought it was funny that I was lifting weights and had cool biceps. Then my old language tutor saw me and was like OH DOVE! Your face is so thin! You look so skinny!

How could I go back now? Even if I "just" maintain, how could I go back? They are VERY VERY blunt here. They will say "Dove, you look like you are fatter" or "Dove, you have a zit on your face" LOL. I couldn't handle that

[peanutte]

When folk travel they are so afraid the plan with not serve stuff they can eat they pack enough to feed 4 folk and then consume it all.

Maybe some people do this, but I always end up leaving about half of what I brought--or sharing it with others who aren't low-carbing but who enjoy my snacks. They won't let you bring an open container back through security, so I've had to leave half-cans of nuts and stuff like that every time I've traveled.

Dove, you'll find the right balance and figure it out. It just takes some trial and error. I know what you're talking about with the cultural bluntness--my sister experienced plenty of that in Madagascar. She had her hair cut short, and the local villagers were more than forthcoming with their opinions about that. "Why are you looking like a man?" "You will never find a husband!" etc.

[kerbear879]

Dove I understand the "eating around" your surgery. I've certainly had my moments of that. Yes it's great that I can't physically eat as much as before but that doesn't mean I can't eat more often! Luckily, the low carb thing has really worked for me with keeping me full. I know myself around nuts and I could probably eat a huge bag in one sitting so I just about never have them around me. At least you are aware that these things are a problem and hopefully that will help you in finding a solution!

[kerbear879]

Peanutte - have you checked out the new Tony's Market they built close to downtown on Broadway? OMG they have the best selection of meats! The OH and I went in there over the weekend and they were cooking steaks out in front that you could sample. And then we found a few things we really liked in there. We grill pretty much every single night and they had so many different variety of things you could grill. Anyways, just wanted to give you an FYI in case you hadn't heard about it!

[peanutte]

Thanks, Kerri! I didn't know about that new place.

[junkfoodmonkey]

I'm still here! I'm just not posting much lately, busy trying to finish up some projects by the end of June.

Been a tad naughty, having milk and peanuts (the salted, fried kind) and artifical sweetners a bit too much lately. So far I'm getting away with it, but must watch that.

I'm working on cutting calories right now by trying to eat smaller meals, and usually finding that I can be absolutely fine and not hungry on significantly less than I was used to eating! But I won't leave myself hungry and open to temptation!

Today's menu:

b: (about 6:40) 2 strips bacon and 1 egg fried in lard. (that's one of the cut down meals! But very fatty, so keeps me full.)
s: (about 9:30) Babybel cheese.
l: (will be around 12:00) 2 hard boiled eggs, full fat ceaser dressing, blueberries (about 60 grams of them) and Fage (50 grams of that)
s: ?? Maybe have one, maybe not, see if I feel hungry. If I do I'll try to be good and have something like cheese.
Around 16:45 I pop into Starbucks on the way home and will either have a blck coffee with cream or a latte. (I know which I should have, yes!
d: (at around 18:00) Beef brisket, veggies (I think it's green beans or broc tonight, can't remember!) with butter on the veggies. Or possibly sauted in the bacon grease from this morning if it is green beans, because, yum!
s: maybe 50gram serving of Fage later, if I feel the need.

[peanutte]

Keep going, jfm! Planning it all ahead of time helps, doesn't it?

Dang, I wish I had some blueberries in the house today. Today is going to be a very fishy day for me. I had tilapia for brunch and will probably be making salmon for dinner.

[2big4mysize]

Hang in there JFM

I have a cooking day so I have lots of already cooked legal foods in the house and will be having either bbq chciken or pork depending on what I want at dinner time. yesterday I thought I was going to have the pulled pork but at dinner I wanted chili. almost 100 with the heat index and I get a hankering for a fiery hot hot dinner go figure

[Dovelette]

I hope this doesn't get too bad of reviews. I've started combining JUDDD with OWL. I think, peanutte, that you are right about calories, possibly even moreso for me because I ate so low cal for so long. I am finding that I am able to work BETTER with my surgery tool by doing it this way. Why? Well when I try to limit calories daily, I find I am really, really hungry daily. Now on my Down Days, I find I am eating low carb and also am supplementing with protein shakes (which I should be doing for my surgery as well).

There is what we call a 5 Day pouch Test in WLS which is designed to help you regain that feeling of fullness in your pouch. It's a 2 day liquid fast followed by soft proteins, semi soft and then dense. I have done it a few times in the past and have always been happy and that feeling, but it has faded quickly. I am hoping that, by incorporating that method, that I will naturally regain satiety.

On my Up Days I'm finding I'm not as afraid to experiment with more carbs, while still sticking to the ladder method. I'm also contemplating have one "refeed" Up Day where I have one serving of a higher carb food, such as sweet potatoes, oatmeal, beans or fruit. Other plans recommend this and I think by eating those healthy carbs on the higher rung, I will have an easier time (with cultural outings as well - I can plan an Up Day for visiting neighbors). Also, since I seem to be continually running into situations with alcohol, I feel that allowing myself more to drink on an Up Day (not every up day, just when I'm in a situation where we are drinking) my weight will not fluxuate so much and be so out of control with the bouncing.

I dunno, I feel this gives me a bit more freedom as far as my particular situation. Still following OWL, just tweaking it for my life here.

I Hope I'm not a huge disappointment! I have thought about this for a while and think it might be a better option for me.

[2big4mysize]

actually on Atkins you should be having up days and down days if you are feeding your hunger. Many folk lose the ability to "feel" when hunger is fed just like you did with your pouch feeling full and iover feed their hunger. those are the folk who will post I got to count cals or else it doesn't work.
I can't tell you how many times I thought I was "starving" and fixed a big breakfast to feed that hunger. I'd get a few bites eatten get interupted and come back to finish my yummy _____ ( whatever I was having) sit down and realize hey I'm not hungry and I shouldn't eat this. Before Atkins I'd use the "tough it is legal and I want it" excuse to down it all, but doing atkins I'd put it away knowing I could eat some of it later when I got hungry. Then I'd be hungry at lunch had a cup of soup while I was reheating the rest of breakfast and poof hunger gone and so lunch didn't make it past the plate stage neither. Then dinner would be a normal dinner. next day i really was starving and all breakfast lunch and dinner would get eaten along with a post workout snack.
There were days in OWL when fitday looked like I was doing kimkins if you didn't know the soup and stuff was high fat. And then there were days when you'd think I was still a superheavyweight and had more for breakfast then any of you do all day.

Listen to your body and feed your hunger. If you need JUUDD to help you learn what hunger feels like then use it. soon you will know you need more food on some days and less food on other days and no preplanned week long menu will do.

[2big4mysize]

count your alcohol as part of your food since it is a rung 5 "food" and then you should be able to control your eating on those days too.

did y'all know Dr Atkins was talking about removing alcohol from the rungs since it had no nutrtional value in 2003 before he died?

[Dovelette]

Thank you for your post 2big it meant a lot to me!

I will DEFINITELY be counting my alcohol on up days, every calorie lol. I realize that means I'll have to eat lighter and that's ok.

I agree that maybe it has no *nutritional* value (alcohol) but I do believe that red wine does have health benefits. No other alcohol, but just red wine. Ooooh I love me some red wine, just wish it tasted good here.

That's mostly what we drank in the States, with an occasional cocktail. I was fortunately all my friends were red wine drinkers and we usually went to wine bars or served wine at parties.

[2big4mysize]

did you ever do Dr Atkins learn your hunger exercise?
you fix your normal meal and eat 1/2. stop and ask yourself if you are still hungry or has that food satisfied your hunger? if so put it away but know you can have some more when you do get hungry ( notice it is when you do not if you get). If you are still hungry then eat 1/2 of the remaining food and again stop and ask yourself if you are hungry.

Once you finish todays testing meal that is the size you start tomorrow with and retest until you know how little food it takes to satisfy your hungry. Just remember hunger isn't just growling tummies. it is other physical symptoms you guys have seen many times in my posts about hunger confusion, irritation,agitation,feeling faint or light headed, tired, weak, dizzy, or even sweet food cravings are just a few. I'm sure by now you all know the signals your body sends even if they aren't on my list.

[peanutte]

Dove, I am the furthest thing from disappointed in you. I'm proud of you for coming up with a very specific PLAN and thoughtfully deciding what you think might help you. Absolutely! This is not some fly-by-night frantic gimmick you're undertaking; it is a well-reasoned plan.

I'm also contemplating have one "refeed" Up Day where I have one serving of a higher carb food, such as sweet potatoes, oatmeal, beans or fruit.

That sounds like a great idea to me. I have never liked the term "refeed" day because...well...just as a phrase, it sounds gross to me! Like you're feeding cattle or something. Ha! But when you spell it out as having one serving of a higher-rung food, it makes perfect sense to me.

Just remember hunger isn't just growling tummies. it is other physical symptoms you guys have seen many times in my posts about hunger confusion, irritation,agitation,feeling faint or light headed, tired, weak, dizzy, or even sweet food cravings are just a few. I'm sure by now you all know the signals your body sends even if they aren't on my list.

Yep, and that is what I go by. I'm not saying I wait for all these symptoms before every meal--of course not. But I can tell the difference between real, bodily hunger and "mental" hunger.

2big, I have not purposefully done that experiment, although that's kind of how I instinctively eat. I might look at a piece of steak I just cooked and think that the three or four ounces I've cut and weighed looks so small compared to how hungry I feel. But after I sit down and eat my dinner, my generous side of veggies (with butter or olive oil) along with that amount of meat is very satisfying.

[Dovelette]

I haven't tried that but will definitely check it out! In general I can eat 1.5 cups of food. Less if it's dense protein, like meat. More if it's "slider" foods, especially carbs.

Here is the thing with my pouch: It's probably about 6oz right now, and originally it could hold 1oz. However, when they cut it up, they cut out the stoma. The stoma is that little "valve" squeezy thing at the bottom of a normal persons stomach that regulates how fast food empties your stomach.

I don't have one, so I think of my food as a funnel. It slides out. So a dense protein will stick with me longer and generally makes me fuller sooner. If I drink with a meal, it slides out faster. I typically can only EAT 4 to 6oz of food, it's more of a matter of hot hungry I get an how fast. I mean I can only eat about 1.5 cups of pasta, but good lord if I'm not starving in an hour lol.

We're told to eat protein first, then veggies, THEN if there is room left, carbs. In theory there shouldn't be room left.

It's possible my stoma is stretched and thus my funnel hole is bigger than other folks, which could account for my hunger levels. OR...you are right, I could be confusing mouth hunger/head hunger with "real" hunger. I know I have in the past, and ate too much and was sooo uncomfortable. I feel I'm getting a better hold of that now since I started Atkins and have felt fuller in general.

[Dovelette]

*phew* I feel so much better - like I had confession and I didn't even have to say any hail mary's LOL. I respect the people on this list probably more than anyone else on LCF and so your opinions and support mean so much to me. Thanks guys. I seriously am tearing up lol.

I'm glad I didn't jump into this earlier, even though I thought about it. I weighed my options, specifically against my surgery, my weight lifting, my living in Africa, and it made sense to at LEAST try it out. I haven't been losing any way, so it can't be any worse than I'm at!! I'm very much enjoying eating more veggies and my yogurt again, and my body is happy too.

[peanutte]

I know, I'm loving a serving of plain Stonyfield yogurt about once a week. That has been such a treat. And I'm allegedly going strawberry picking this weekend. They will be the tiny little ones, not these tasteless monsters we have in the supermarkets, but I have a feeling the flavor will be to die for.

[junkfoodmonkey]

Well, I'm a mere 0.44 of a lb lighter than on the 1st of June, but that's okay, I've only been trying to maintain for the last couple of months. And I feel generally thinner and lighter anyway. Time to get back to losing though, still have ten pounds to go.

I'm happy with where I am on the carb ladder and am incorporating various foods like beans and apples and yogurt (only Fage!) but not having them all of the time. So I'll stick with that and concentrate on what I've started on the cutting calories front, with smaller meals. Also intend to get exercise back into my routine, as I haven't been doing any for a few weeks.

Will have a dodgy weekend when I'm away for a couple of days for a birthday party, but that kind of thing rarely causes me a big problem. Even if I go right off plan I get right back on. Party means new outfit!