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Old 04-13-2009, 01:47 AM   #451
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The cream we have here is great! There's single cream, which is lightish, under 20% fat and is nice for coffee. Doesn't whip. Whipping cream - same as your HWC. Then double cream, about 50% fat. Really rich, okay in coffee, great for pouring on fruit and desserts but also great for cooking. It won't curdle if heated. Whips. You can get extra thick double cream too, the same thing just thicker, for spooning rather than pouring. And of course clotted cream, 63% fat, so thick you can spread it with a knife!
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:33 AM   #452
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eklektos, remember that my "recipe" is more of a guideline, so you can use less or more of anything, and it'll still be good.

Dove, is this morning the official end of your two weeks of Induction?
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:19 AM   #453
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peanutte - today is Day 14 so it's the last day of Induction. I'm still on the fence as to whether or not to stay on induction for one more week or not. I THINK what I'm going to do starting tomorrow is ensure I eat at LEAST 20g of carbs a day and allow myself the freedom to go up to 25 by adding more veggies if I want to but not force it. Then next week be sure I eat up to 25 and continue up the ladder. Does this make sense?

I have to be honest, I hope I'm doing this right, I haven't read the book in probably 5 years and I don't have it with me here in Africa. I asked my mom to mail it to me but she says she can't find it (I'm not surprised, I have so many boxes of books!).
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:36 AM   #454
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Yeah, just keep doing what's working but add a few more vegetable carbs. That's the first rung of the carb ladder--more vegetables. Add up to five grams on some days and see how you like it. There's no pressure to suddenly eat a lot more carbs; you should take it at a pace that feels right to you.

Plus, the number you start from is five grams added to whatever you were eating on Induction. So if you had been eating a net total of 12 grams a day, you can go up to 17. If you had been eating around 18, go up to 23 on some days. See what I'm sayin'?
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:54 AM   #455
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Yep, and I've been pretty varied during Induction, from say 12 to 20g, but usually on the higher side so I think focusing on getting in the 20 and going up to 25 on some days should fit in with what I've been doing. I personally have no problem getting in more carbs with veggie - living in Cape Verde we have a very limited selection of veggies and most are higher carb ones, so all I need to do is add another half an onion to the mix and I'm up 5 more carbs
Yesterday was a pretty low carb day - prior to dinner I think I'd only had about 4 or 5, so I found eggplant at the market and made eggplant, onion and tomato sautee. It was soooo good. It can be difficult to find lettuce here so I'm especially looking forward to that first rung
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:00 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by Dovelette View Post
Yep, and I've been pretty varied during Induction, from say 12 to 20g, but usually on the higher side so I think focusing on getting in the 20 and going up to 25 on some days should fit in with what I've been doing. I personally have no problem getting in more carbs with veggie - living in Cape Verde we have a very limited selection of veggies and most are higher carb ones, so all I need to do is add another half an onion to the mix and I'm up 5 more carbs
Yesterday was a pretty low carb day - prior to dinner I think I'd only had about 4 or 5, so I found eggplant at the market and made eggplant, onion and tomato sautee. It was soooo good. It can be difficult to find lettuce here so I'm especially looking forward to that first rung
welcome to the topic.
since Mom can't find your book ask her to send lettuce seeds. you can get packets of mixed lettuce seeds at walmart and then you could grow your own in a pot and harvest the leaves when you eat and let the plant keep growing. I cut our leaves off about 1/4th inch high and with water and fertiziler am harvesting daily. They will bolt in the hot season unless you grow them indoors but it sure helps keep the cost down.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:04 AM   #457
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Speaking of lettuce...I had been buying Romaine in these three-packs for 2 dollars, which was paying less money for more lettuce than if I got the bagged, pre-washed salad stuff.

Yesterday the bagged stuff was on sale, so--feeling lazy--I got two bags and thought "I won't have to dork around washing and chopping my lettuce this week." (Because, you know, washing and chopping my lettuce had been taking up SO much of my valuable time!)

It doesn't taste as good! It just doesn't. I don't know what they wash it with, but it has a very slight chemically taste, somehow.

Back to whole heads of lettuce for me next week. In fact, I think I'm going to get some Romaine, butter lettuce, and Radicchio and make up my own salad mix.

It's so funny how our taste buds change and become so sensitive to flavors we barely noticed before. Yesterday at the store, I wanted to get some pickles because I like a good, garlicky, tangy, crunchy pickle from time to time. The ones I wanted--Claussen--were expensive, so we got the Sunflower Market house brand of plain old "dill pickles". It was an enormous jar for only a couple of dollars.

So we got home, and after a few hours I decided to try the new pickles. I opened the jar, took one bite, and immediately tasted sugar. I spat the damn pickle out in the trash and looked at the jar and sure enough, sugar was the fourth ingredient after salt and cucumbers and vinegar. WTH?! I don't expect dill pickles to have sugar in them. Boy, was I irritated. I told my boyfriend that next time, I better remember to read the label, because now we've got this huge jar of pickles that I won't eat.

And in this case, it's not even about the sugar, per se--there are 2 grams of carbs per pickle and that's not a big deal to me. The issue is I hate the taste. I don't like things to taste sweet when I don't want them to be sweet!
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:24 AM   #458
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I hate how they stick sugar in things that have no business having sugar in them. A couple weeks ago when we started induction I went out and bought mayo. Not salad dressing, it just said mayonnaise. I got home and made some tuna salad and it was so sweet! Sugar was right up at the top of ingredients. Damn. So we went and got another kind (sent hubby) and it TOO had sugar in it! The last kind had sugar in the ingredients too, but the carb count was really low so I went with that one instead. SO frustrating!

2b - our family sent us some seed packs already but we haven't tried to grow them yet. The main issue is dirt...I know that sounds weird but we can't figure out if we can just take an old jug or whatever and use dirt from outside. The dirt here is sort of like...well it's like broken rock, not like "earth" that we had back at home.

I'm hoping still to have the book sent to me, I posted a msg about it and someone offered to send me a copy, so we'll see!! I remember most of the rules and how to add things back in, but there is nothing like having a hard copy of something with you to be able to reference ya know? I tried to order it off amazon.com and it wouldn't let me either. Super weird, I"ve ordered things from there before and had it shipped to me...
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:29 AM   #459
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Dove, you can always look back to the very first post on this thread; I copied out the steps of the carb ladder in order. And the Power of Five is easy to remember--when introducing a new food, add five net grams at a time, not a whole bunch. I had no problem with lentils when I used that rule and stuck with only a quarter cup at a time (I think you mentioned lentils?). I'm not going to have more than that until I am at Pre-Maintenance and doing the Power of 10.

I might try a granny smith apple this week since I sort of skipped the More Fruits rung. If I choose to, I will have about 1/4 apple--just a few slices--and I will have fat with it, probably some cheddar cheese.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:33 AM   #460
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lettuce will grow on just about anything so you could just use the local dirt, shredded newspaper if the ink is lead free is good too. My Mother amended the red clay soil of her yard with peatmoss and sand, but fertilizer is the key. see if you can find something like Miracle grow for your lettuce. Other veggies do better with a more balanced or even a bllom favoring fertilizer once the plants are established since the more blooms the more veggies.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:36 AM   #461
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Sigh. It is my dream to someday have a pretty big vegetable garden. Our soil out here is such crap, though.

Dove, I confess I didn't know jack squat about Cape Verde so I looked it up, and wow, what a beautiful, fascinating place to live!
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:58 PM   #462
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hey Peanute have you looked at raised bed gardening? you can have the crappiest soil cause you use it as a floor for your garden box and add good dirt on top to fill the box. you can build a box bed or just buy those plastic tubs drill a few holes in them for drainage and plant your veggies in them. I grow eggplant tomatoes peppers greens radishes and lettuce in them. I bought some planting soil and mixed it with soil conditioner and have 5 gallon veggie pots all over Mother's porch and driveway. the raised stuff keeps some of the critters out too. when it gets too cold or hot for my lettuce I just bring the big pot inside and put it infornt of the sliding glass door. keeps Mother from wandering out too.
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Old 04-13-2009, 02:14 PM   #463
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I was going to say the same thing! Check out Square Foot Gardening, it's an amazing way to get really great veggies/herbs. I had a 4x4 garden and we had 5 kinds of hot peppers, zucchini, cucumber, bell peppers, and tons of herbs, all in that little space.
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Old 04-13-2009, 02:57 PM   #464
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Actually... I have thought about doing just that! I have plenty of room in my back yard and it would just be a matter of clearing some space and making the beds or buying the tubs.

We did tomatoes, hot peppers and cilantro that way last summer. It was fun!
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Old 04-14-2009, 06:58 AM   #465
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Todays OWL menu

b: 3 eggs scrambled in butter. Blackerries and fage
l: Crustless quiche (cheese, ham and spring onion filling) Babybel cheese. Diet Coke (Coke! Naughty! Must stop those.)
d: Roast lamb with green beans and a little red onion. Maybe a little Fage. (It calls to me when it's in the fridge!) A bit of chedder to finish off.

Oh and I'll be bouncing on my new rebounder after work. Boing!
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Old 04-14-2009, 11:18 AM   #466
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I really do love those crustless quiches. This morning I didn't have the patience to wait for one to cook (I don't care for them pre-cooked and re-heated) so I just had basted eggs and uncured bacon instead. But I had a thought this morning: I don't really like the whites much, so I used one whole egg and two yolks. I don't know why that never occurred to me before.

Later, I'm going to make chicken breast with a little roasted-garlic pasta sauce, leftover from whole wheat pasta I made for the boyfriend's dinner last night. It'll be like a chicken parmigiano of sorts--just not breaded. I'll only use about a quarter cup per serving, so not too carby. I think I'll serve it over spinach.

Oh, remember I mentioned my Pickle Disappointment? He stopped to pick up a few things on the way home from work yesterday and brought me the Claussen dill pickles I wanted in the first place. That was a nice thing to do.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:32 PM   #467
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Oooh, the chicken turned out really well and was super easy. Just take your boneless skinless chicken breast or thigh, rub it with a teaspoon of olive oil, then take about 2 Tbsp of grated parm mixed with Italian herbs and spread it out on a paper towel, flip your chicken oil-side-down and pat it into the parm and make a coating, put the chicken plain-side-down in a pan and bake it on 400 for about 25 minutes. Then take it out, spoon 1/4 cup of jarred pasta sauce over it and cook for another 15 minutes. Sprinkle with a little more parm if desired before serving.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:35 PM   #468
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The cream we have here is great! There's single cream, which is lightish, under 20% fat and is nice for coffee. Doesn't whip. Whipping cream - same as your HWC. Then double cream, about 50% fat. Really rich, okay in coffee, great for pouring on fruit and desserts but also great for cooking. It won't curdle if heated. Whips. You can get extra thick double cream too, the same thing just thicker, for spooning rather than pouring. And of course clotted cream, 63% fat, so thick you can spread it with a knife!
mmm english cream! i seriously cant wait to get back the 'right' side of the pond JFM (and i dont mean lake michigan!) ... first thing im chowing down on is clotted cream and berries! perfect summer fare!!
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Old 04-15-2009, 10:16 PM   #469
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Brie was on sale last weekend at my grocery store, so I bought some and have been having one ounce a day on a Wasa cracker.

I can't believe I get to eat Brie and lose weight. It just blows my mind.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:41 PM   #470
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Mmmmm...brie! What a treat!

I have a question about protein. For the last several days, I've been getting about 55g to 65g of protein in my daily diet. Is this enough? I'm not doing any heavy weight-lifting--not trying to build muscle mass or anything. I just do some toning exercises with 3-lb weights and lift a lot of laundry baskets and dirty or wounded toddlers. But I don't want to burn up any muscle I already do have.
My % breakdown for today is 65% fat, 25% protein, and 10% carbs. My calories for today are kind of low though (just 1000 altogether, including what I'm planning for dinner tonight). That's because I just had 2 eggs for breakfast and then 2 eggs in mayo for lunch over spinach salad. Dinner is a ham & vegetable soup, with 1/4 cup Fage yogurt and 1/2 cup canteloupe (a new venture) to finish it off. Nothing is very calorie dense today, so my calories are a couple hundred lower than what I usually shoot for.
I know I'll bring that back up tomorrow, but mostly I'm just concerned about whether the protein looks adequate.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:51 PM   #471
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I don't know the exact amount you need. There are different recommendations about that. In the very beginning I was trying to keep my protein around 70 grams a day, but now I get about 100 grams a day and have been doing that for a long while.

There's a formula somewhere for calculating how much protein you might need to prevent the loss of muscle mass. I can't remember where it was posted, though. Maybe do a search and see what you find. I know that excessive protein gets converted to glycogen or glucose or something, the upshot of which is less fat being used for fuel. I know 2big knows the answer to that.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:49 PM   #472
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for those of you eating around 50g of carbs a day what do you eat?
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:22 PM   #473
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I don't eat anything close to 50 grams a day and don't expect to until Maintenance, and even then, I doubt I will eat 50 grams a day regularly. I still have a long way to go (my goal is really only my first goal. My real goal has yet to be determined).

If I were eating 50 grams a day--and that would be not discounting fiber--I would eat lentils and chickpeas in small amounts, I would eat some fruit like half a Granny Smith apple or a plum, I would eat more higher-carb vegetables like sweet potatoes, sugar snap peas, and maybe carrots and other root vegetables, and I would eat more nuts and seeds.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:57 AM   #474
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Mmmmm...brie! What a treat!

I have a question about protein. For the last several days, I've been getting about 55g to 65g of protein in my daily diet. Is this enough? I'm not doing any heavy weight-lifting--not trying to build muscle mass or anything. I just do some toning exercises with 3-lb weights and lift a lot of laundry baskets and dirty or wounded toddlers. But I don't want to burn up any muscle I already do have.
My % breakdown for today is 65% fat, 25% protein, and 10% carbs. My calories for today are kind of low though (just 1000 altogether, including what I'm planning for dinner tonight). That's because I just had 2 eggs for breakfast and then 2 eggs in mayo for lunch over spinach salad. Dinner is a ham & vegetable soup, with 1/4 cup Fage yogurt and 1/2 cup canteloupe (a new venture) to finish it off. Nothing is very calorie dense today, so my calories are a couple hundred lower than what I usually shoot for.
I know I'll bring that back up tomorrow, but mostly I'm just concerned about whether the protein looks adequate.
low carbers have 2 basic protein needs one for growth and repair of both and the other is as the source of glucose for body parts that can't metabolize fats and for anerobic energy manufacturing as fat metabolism needs oxygen.

that said controlledcarb who is a nutritionist and works with low carb patients posted a formula to calculate our minimum portein needs. divid your current body weight by 2.2 and that will give you the target grams. Then some folk who are more active will need lightly more protein. You can figure it out by how hungry you are. if you are hungry on the 2.2 figure add 10% more and see how you do.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:59 AM   #475
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for those of you eating around 50g of carbs a day what do you eat?
veggies, seeds and nuts, legumes and berries, fresh dairy, and a few of the other veggies from the higher rungs. I also added a wheat protein, oat bran and a corn bran so I could nake rolls and stuff.
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Old 04-17-2009, 06:45 AM   #476
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Hi everyone!

I have been reading through this thread and wanted to see if I could join the party

I finished induction last Sunday and I am still basically doing induction at this point because I am afraid of owl I have been inspired reading through with you guys on this stage and might just add some more veggies to my diet. I have been regularly between 15-20 net carb grams/day so I know I need to add more.

Anyway -- just wanted to say hello and stop being a creepy lurker
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:05 AM   #477
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philnikki you sound like me lol! I'm definately hitting my 20g goal this week but I'm sooo afraid to go over - it seems so silly since the plan was designed for us to lose most of our weight on OWL, right? Ah well, every night I try to get over the fear...maybe tonight will be the night. I have grilled eggplant planned, why not throw a salad on top of it right?

Oh I have a ?? I remember from back when I read DANDR that we are supposed to have 2-3 cups of salad a day right? And if we have 2 cups we can have up to 1 cup of another veggie (totally simplifying this). BUT...on the website it says we should get 12 to 15 of our carbs daily from veggies. I dunno about you guys, but 2 cups of lettuce is like 1g of carbs. What gives? Should I go by actual carb count or the whole 2 to 3 cup thing?
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:20 AM   #478
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Hi Phil! Welcome! You have a nice avatar--that's a cute picture of you and your daughter. What a nice smile you have.

Dove, go by grams, not cups. Cups are just silly to me; my "cup of lettuce" might be half as much as your "cup of lettuce" and it's just too inexact. Get a scale and go by weight when measuring everything; it will make your life a lot easier in the long run. You don't have to spend a lot of money; I got the cheap five-dollar bare-bones one at Target and it's fine for me. I'd like to get a better one at some point, but it's such an important tool that I think starting with the cheapie version is way better than trying to measure by volume. You will come to see what a four ounce (or five ounce, or six ounce) portion of meat is; you'll come to be able to cut a one-ounce piece of cheese with remarkable accuracy, just by sight. Seriously, it's the single most helpful tool you will ever use in this (or any) way of eating.

I'm going to go out on a limb and address this fear we all seem to have of increasing our carbs. This may be controversial, and I may catch some flack for it, but here's the deal: we start Atkins Induction, and everything is going along swimmingly for two weeks (or more) and we decide it's in our best interest to move on to OWL because that's what the books says to do.

At the same time, we like the rate of loss we've been experiencing, and still have a way to go before we get within ten or twenty pounds of goal. So we want to increase our carbs in theory--but in practice, we want to continue losing weight. Right?

Well, here is what I've been doing all along. I introduce the new foods according to the carb ladder (except I skipped Fruit Other Than Berries because I just haven't felt any desire to eat fruit yet--though I have apples on my agenda for next week). I add about five grams to what I was doing on Induction. From 15, I went to 20 net grams. From 20, I went to 25 on a few days a week. I still eat an average--an average--of 20 net grams a day, but my grams before fiber can sometimes be as high as 35 or even a little higher.

"But that's the same as Induction!" some will say. No, it isn't. I am introducing different foods to my menu and seeing how my body handles them, and that's really important information to learn. I eat what satisfies me, and I have more choices in OWL. But I still have nearly 14 pounds to go toward my first goal, and another 10-15 after that to what I hope will be my lifetime maintenance goal. So for now, I am not interested in increasing my carbs more than I have; this is sustainable, and I am losing about 1 pound a week, and I am not ready to slow that down. For this rate of weight loss, the amount of carbs I'm eating appears to be fine.

I have a timeline in my mind of the end of June or getting to 150, whichever comes first, as to when I will try to up my net carbs to 30-35 per day on some days. In fact, I was thinking of doing a trial week next week. But honestly, I don't want to mess with what's working. Is that doing OWL properly? I don't know. I'm following the principals, I just want to take my time. I'm not in any hurry to eat 50 grams a day or anything like that; some people, though, might very well want to increase their carbs to that level and they should be more aggressive than I have been, if that's the case. I can't see any compelling reason why I should force myself to eat more carbs (for now) if I'm perfectly happy with what I'm eating, and my variety of food is satisfying and nutritious.

Induction looks different to different people. I'm frankly not a big fan of Induction menus that are disproportionately heavy on the eggs, cheese, whipping cream, and processed meats like salami, and pepperoni, and hot dogs--with two cups of lettuce as an afterthought. Personally, my Induction was veggie-heavy, and other than uncured bacon, I prefer to eat fresh meat and poultry, not "junk meat". My point is, for some people, OWL looks like their healthy version of Induction, just with more stuff added. For others, Induction was a very restrictive experience, consisting of foods that--in my opinion--cannot make up a sustainable way of eating, so for them, moving into OWL means moving past those few foods they were eating for the past two weeks.

Does this even make sense? I'm just saying: moving into OWL does not mean you are obligated to immediately start loading more carbs into your menu. Finding your Critical Carb Losing Level can take a good long while if you want it to. This is a time to widen your menu and find out how you respond to different foods, and to continue exercising and making that a part of your life, and also to "build a house of food" as (2big says) that you feel you can comfortably live in for the rest of your life.

You don't have to be afraid. Nobody is hovering over you, demanding that you significantly increase your carbs this week. It's up to you. What the Rule of Five does for us is give us a guideline as to how much we can introduce at any given time. For example, when you get to berries, you can't suddenly have a whole cup of berries and expect that to not impact your ketosis. But you can try having a small amount of berries that contains roughly 5 grams of net carbs and see how that works for you. When you get to legumes, you can't have a big handful of peanuts--you need to measure a portion that contains about 5 net grams. In my opinion, THAT is the primary value of the Rule of Five and the Carb Ladder, otherwise we might be veering all over the place in terms of trying different foods after Induction.

So don't be afraid! Do any of you have netflix? Look at it like this: you were on the one-DVD-at-a-time plan, and now you get to be on the three-at-a-time plan, but that doesn't mean you have to get three DVDs every time if you don't want to!

Last edited by peanutte; 04-17-2009 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:40 AM   #479
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peanutte is doing what some call a modified OWL holding her carbs low but eating from the rungs she wants.

If you are doing ANA atkins then follow the website advice. If you are doing Dr Atkins last version either Atkins For Life or DANDR 2002 then you eat the 2 plus 1 cup version of induction and you start OWL by adding more of any induction legal veggies for a total addition of 5 net grams so if you added jicama or spaghetti squash that would be 5 net grams of carbs of one of them AND your regular induction 2 cups plus one cup.

for those who fear the additions lets get down to facts. You are adding 80-90 digestible calories of a veggie to your induction totals. Unless you are one of those 5% who are metabolically resistant (and you would already know based on the 2002 charts and your pounds lost for 14 days induction and the total pounds you needed to shed if you are or not) those 80-90 cals are not going to stop your weight loss. It would take eating them for almost 40 days to effect your scale numbers negatively.
On the positive side you will be getting more vits and minerals in a natural form.

Now you don't just keep adding cups of the OWL foods to your induction total eating. You will be eating slightly more carbs so you will satisfy your hunger with a slightly smaller portion of fats such as if you ate 2 ounces of cheese for your snank or 2 deviled eggs now you would have maybe one ounce with some of your new foods as part of your snack. For a meal you might eat a bite or two less of your protein like 2 eggs in your omelette instead of 3 since you got more veggies to fill it with.
Your hunger will tell you how much you need. remember we only eat as much food as it takes to satisfy our hunger and stop even if we got food still on the plate carbs in our budget and/or room in our belly. If you get hunger again in a little while you can eat again.

If you made it though induction without learning portion control you didn't do Atkins induction cause Dr Atkins even gives lessons in DANDR for learning how to just feed our hunger by only eating 1/2 the food on our plate and stopping to see if we are still hungry.

Even now I could eat a whole chicken but I know I don't need it to feed my hunger so I only have a piece of chicken with my other foods. That is what Atkins is about feeding our hunger with high fat moderate protein low carb foods and stopping. No stuffing allowed even if it is legal. If you got to loosen your belt after eating doing Atkins you just cheated and over ate. Stretch receptors in our stomachs sending a signal to the brain have nothing to do with actual hunger levels being fed.
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Old 04-17-2009, 08:54 AM   #480
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Quote:
Now you don't just keep adding cups of the OWL foods to your induction total eating. You will be eating slightly more carbs so you will satisfy your hunger with a slightly smaller portion of fats such as if you ate 2 ounces of cheese for your snack or 2 deviled eggs now you would have maybe one ounce with some of your new foods as part of your snack. For a meal you might eat a bite or two less of your protein like 2 eggs in your omelette instead of 3 since you got more veggies to fill it with.
Yes, what has happened on OWL, for me, is my daily percentage of carbs has gone from 5% or less (on Induction) to 8-12%. My Induction ratios were more like 75% fat/20% protein/5% carbs and now they look more like 55-60% fat/25-30% protein/8-12% carbs. So as you can see, I am eating more carbs--just not forcing them.

I want to clarify that as far as the fruit rung is concerned, I never ate much fruit anyway. I mean seriously, I could go a month without eating fruit and not have noticed. So it's not so much "skipping" that rung as having no use for it.

I also want to clarify that when I say I average 20 g a day, that means there are some days every week where I do eat more carbs. I have gone as high as 35-40 on select days (before fiber). So while I may be doing a modified OWL, as 2big says, I still think it's by the book in terms of the big picture.

2big is right, the portion control aspect will carry you through OWL and on to Pre-Maintenance.
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