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Old 03-19-2009, 11:01 AM   #271
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Yeah, I use ****** and what it's been telling me over the last couple of weeks is that I am hovering at around 25 net carbs a day--which really isn't much more than Induction, even though I'm eating a wider variety of food.

I struggle with my feelings about this, because on the one hand, I sorta feel obligated to add more carbs if I want to truly be doing OWL. On the other hand, if that's how many carbs it happens to be when I eat all the foods I want to eat, why should I push myself to add more? Maybe I should push myself up to 30-35 for three days a week and see how that goes. But I'm really satisfied with the way I'm eating now.

(I'm sure 2big will be along shortly to answer that for me...she is so wise...heh heh heh!)

Bobbin, thank for saying you got something out of that post. I guess I just don't understand why so many people are willing to expect so little from their husbands who are sabotaging them. If my hypothetical husband was a smoker and he was trying to quit, I wouldn't bring him cigs --or even things that I know trigger him (like alcohol, which makes even non-smokers want to smoke!). What is so hard about that?! What is so crazy about expecting respect, competence and adult functioning? I don't get it.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:55 PM   #272
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carb numbers and why they are important in OWL
one you are conducting an experiemnt ment to help you stay a goalie for life. first you need to figure out what based on your lifestly and your metabolic resistance will be your highest gram eatting total and not regain. next you need to figure out how those foods on the carb ladder effect your body, your weight and your craving control.

those who experience a loss of bloat and intestinal irritation while doing induction can bet their eye teeth they got a food intolerance and it isn't just sugar as just about all inductees will post.

you'd be surprized how many swear they loved bread folk discover that after cleaning out their bodies and eating Atkins for 2 months without any wheat discover they have a wheat reaction and never knew it cause it was a constant state of reaction for their entire life. Some discover nut caused them issues and can't even eat nut butters without intestinal issues that they had always had to a degree but didn't realize it was from a food and thought it was just normal for all folk.
so you are both the scinetist and the lab rat during OWL.


Knowing your carb limit is 55 but eating at 35 is okay. You just need to climb to discover it first and then can say okay I know my metabolism on this level of active lifestyle ( DR Atkins term for exercise) is 55 but I really like the way I'm losing on 35 so I'll eat there for now. Maybe when I get to premaintnenace or maintneance I will need to add more of thise yummy veggies or some of those higher GI foods like the root veggies and or grains.

Also knowing that grains , nuts or any of theose rungs of the ladder foods causes you digestive and/or carving control issue can help you identify foods and maybe even places not to eat. that will be helpful when you get to maintnenace cause the appetite suppression of induction and OWL goers away the closer we get to goal as we add back carbs so we need to know what big bad food is going to send us off on a eat everything in the house and within 20 mile drive binge.

All that said we have choices how we will approach the issue.

We can do our OWL modified keeping our carbs artificially lower then our CCLL and swap 5 grams of already aquired carbs for the new rung we want to sample. for example if youe CCLL is that 55 mentioned before but you are eating 35 and you want to add those berries from rung 4. you could add 5 net carbs of them to your already gotten veggies, fresh dairy, nuts/seeds/ and induction foods but have 5 grams less total of those already gotten foods such as 1/2 ounce of nuts/seeds and only 1/4 cup of your fresh dairy products when you are trying them. then after you have tested all the berries you want to test you move to the next rung and swap out a few of your berries a few of those seeds/nuts and other already gotten stuff to add the next one. that is modified OWL.

Or you could add 5 grams each level till you discover your CCLL is ____ grams of carbs and then work the modified to get the rest of the stuff tested.
Some folk's CCLL is 50 and they never go past rung 6 during OWL. then during premaintnenace they try the last 3 rung foods.

each one of you will design your own OWL food and carb totals testing methods.

just remember Dr Atkins advice always have a fat with your carbs and if a new to you food cause you a problem with weight loss and/or carvings punt it immediately!
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:44 PM   #273
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Quote:
Knowing your carb limit is 55 but eating at 35 is okay. You just need to climb to discover it first and then can say okay I know my metabolism on this level of active lifestyle ( DR Atkins term for exercise) is 55 but I really like the way I'm losing on 35 so I'll eat there for now. Maybe when I get to premaintnenace or maintneance I will need to add more of thise yummy veggies or some of those higher GI foods like the root veggies and or grains.
Quote:
for example if youe CCLL is that 55 mentioned before but you are eating 35 and you want to add those berries from rung 4. you could add 5 net carbs of them to your already gotten veggies, fresh dairy, nuts/seeds/ and induction foods but have 5 grams less total of those already gotten foods
Yes, yes! I had an idea of these concepts in my head, and you helped me to clarify it.

Thanks once again for your knowledge.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:59 PM   #274
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Wow, 2B4, that was some great information! I like the way you explained that I am now my own lab rat, lol. It really puts into perspective that this is an experiment to find the best way for ME to eat. I have to say my GI distress is pretty much gone since I started Atkins in January. I was beginning to think I had cervical cancer, or bowel cancer or something, as my gut ALWAYS hurt. What you said made me realize why I should keep close track of my foods for now. The only thing I've noted for sure is that if I ever have sf candy, my gut is a wreck for the rest of the day.

I did ****** today, although I haven't eaten dinner yet I know what I'm having for dinner (crockpot rotisserie chicken), and today is a very typical day of what I've been eating for the past month since (I thought) I moved into OWL. Turns out I'm still under 20 net grams carbs, and only at 1200 or so calories! I'll keep eating the way I have been for a week and tracking there, just to see any fluctuations, but I'm shocked that it's that low. Sometimes I do add a couple of berries or almonds to my day, but only a couple of times a week, and I want to be my own little scientist about it now! I've added in more salad veggies (3-4 cups total) and also eating pumpkin bake (about 1/2 c. pumpkin per serv.) daily, so I thought for sure my carbs and calories would be higher than what I was doing during induction.

Thank you both for all the great information, I can't wait to get to know you better!
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:14 PM   #275
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Bobbin when we do OWL we start adding to whereever we did our induction so if you did induction at 12 then OWL would start at 17. When we do OWL we never drop those required induction veggies neither so we have 3 cups plus 5 more net grams of them and if you pick leaf lettuce as your new veggie you will be eating an enormous salad so it is better to pick some of those yummy other veggies you man not have tired on induction cause of the higher carbs
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:02 PM   #276
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Yes, and just for your information, Bobbin, I was averaging around 1250 calories a day but when I upped it to about 14-1500 I stared losing again.

If you feel like you should be eating more calories and don't feel like eating more volume of food, just thrown some extra olive oil or butter in your veggies for one meal. Ha! No seriously, though, the easiest way for me to get my calories up is to not be afraid of using fats when I cook.

The easiest way for me to start upping my carbs a little wasn't nuts or berries so much, because I'm not inclined to eat those on a regular basis. It's tomatoes and onions! And zucchini! Basically, veggies and more of 'em.
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:08 PM   #277
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I'll have to work on the veggies. I've never been a veggie lover, other than a big salad with romaine, spinach, etc. I'm able to choke down green beans, and I do like cooked tomatoes a lot. Tomatoes would probably be the easiest for me to eat on a regular basis. Ok, I'll think of some to add, zucchini and eggplant are do-able. I love to have a plate with melted cheese, cooked, diced tomatoes and garlic, and chicken on top. Yummo!

Peanutte, how long have you been in OWL? I do feel satisfied with the way I'm eating right now, I don't ever feel deprived or wish for things I shouldn't have. The only time I'm even mildly tempted is the day before TOM starts. I will try adding more fat, my ratios are usually around 55% fat, 35% protein and 10% carbs.

2B4, it looks like you're close to or at goal. I remember you from the Fascination with Kimmer threads, I was on LCF a lot when those first got started, and posted in the first 5 or 6 of them. My favorite night was when someone finally found the russian brides. Classic!!! I even had a password and perused around her forum behind the scenes a few times. What ever happened with Tippy?
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:22 PM   #278
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I had to look back to the very first post on this thread to remember when I started it--I guess it was the end of January when I decided I wanted to start going up the carb ladder.

I have tried all the added foods in order, up to whole grains, which I just don't want to eat yet. I did extra veggies first, then cheese, then nuts, then berries (admittedly only a few). I haven't really done legumes yet because I simply haven't thought about recipes or ways I want to use them. I need to get some garbanzo beans next time I think of it. I do have lentils in the cupboard and I could add 1/4 cup of those to some creamed spinach one day...that sounds kinds of good, curry and cumin. Nice side dish for chicken, maybe.

I was trying to think of what I could do with the recommended 1/4 cup of black beans and it occurred to me I could do a stuffed chicken breast with black beans, cilantro, cotija cheese, roasted poblano peppers and diced red bell peppers. I'll try that next week. (I should make it a challenge to come up with ten interesting ways to use 1/4 cups of legumes on OWL.)

So while I've added more variety to my menu, I've kinda been doing what 2big talked about with swapping out those carbs for other carbs. Before subtracting fiber, my carb count can be as high as 35 or 40 some days, but net carbs are usually no more than 20-25 at most.

I'm actually in your neck of the woods: Denver area. kerbear is from here too and doesn't live far from me, but I haven't met her in person, and now I think she's switched to JUDDD so I don't see her around the forum much, regrettably.
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:55 PM   #279
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I didn't realize that! I live near Cherry Creek Resevoir. I even met up with quite a few LCF people about 2 years ago over in Highlands Ranch for dinner...who was there..purplesage, angeleyes (I think that's her login), silkandsand. There were about 20 of us! It was fun, but I didn't really know anyone, and I was also not low carbing at the time, so I didn't really keep in touch.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:16 PM   #280
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Nice! I don't get over to the Cherry Creek area often (it's kinda fawncy for a jeans-and-t-shirts kind of person like me who doesn't like to shop!), but it's fun to spend an afternoon there once in a while.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:57 AM   #281
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to up your carbs peanutte stuff the pepeer with the chicken beans cheese and veggies

Boobin since you like tomatoes make tomato sauce and smother your proteins. a little EEOV tomatoes herbs and any other veggie you want to hide in there would work well. You could also do cream of tomato soup. if you like pumpkin pie then you can do a cream of pumpkin soup and flavor it with pie spice. I do a curry pumpkin soup that is just sauted onions and garlic in 1/4th cup EEOV with a can of pumpkin, 3T curry paste and a qt of chicken stock. makes 4 servings and I add 2T cream for induction and 2T yogurt for OWL to each serving for the fat. When I'm in a hurry I add cooked shredded beeef pork or chicken and have a curry meal in a bowl
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:02 AM   #282
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Those are some good ideas for food, 2big! I have yet to delve into pumpkin but I'm dying to try some of these recipes.

I reluctantly weighed in this morning--reluctantly, because I felt a little water-retainy-- because I've decided that barring special circumstances, it's important for me to have that information once a week. I'm up .4 pounds, which is really nothing and I'm not concerned about it. I usually have an "up" week following vacation because everything was a little "off" the previous week; I'm sure I didn't get enough calories all week on vacation, but I did get more activity. Anyway, I would have liked to see a slight loss, but I'm okay with 169.4--it's still sneaking in just under the 170s!
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:18 AM   #283
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2B, those are great suggestions, I do love marinara, or a chunky tomato sauce, so I will make some of that, and I could shread some zucchini in there, too. The good thing is that's easy to freeze. Mmm, ok now I'm craving some grilled eggplant with a good home made marinara on it. YUMM!

Peanutte, I live by CC resevoir, more Aurora area, definitely not Cherry Creek. I'd have to be a trust fund baby to live there, and I'm defiitely not!
When I'm retaining water, I'd kill for just half a pound. I have a tendancy (and it'll happen any minute now) to hold onto an extra 2-4 lbs for about a week every month.
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:51 AM   #284
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glad you are seeijng ways to add veggies without thinking of them as veggies. You can sneak in onions like that too and ushrooms if you enjoy them. and if you are southern gumbo is a good place to hide lots of veggies: peppers, okra, tomatoes, onions just to name a few.

and if you like bell or hot peppers think about stuffing them with your meat and sauce and cheese and you get lots of veggie carbs for just a little shifting of ingredients

roasted eggplants with garlic and EEOV can be pureed and used as a dip or spread.
Now that you are OWL you can male pesto too and use some of your spinach for the basil leaves if you want and even use pistachios for added carbs instead of pine nuts even pumpkin seeds will work in there.

hang in there and remember when you weigh to measure too so you can see that the new fluid weight is smaller then the burned of fat weight.
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:26 PM   #285
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Well, I am in OWL, but I haven't had any luck adding in healthy veggie carbs yet. Tomorrow is grocery day, so today I will look for new recipes to try this week, and also buy all the stuff to make a good tomato/veggie sauce at least. I actually have kind of a bad attitude about it today for some reason (PMS), so I'll probably stop at that. I hope you're having a great weekend!!
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Old 03-22-2009, 05:49 AM   #286
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roast some red peppers too and make a red pepper sauce or just do a mixed grill with your meats and saute onions peppers mushrooms and any other veggies you want to add to it. or do a stir fry
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:15 PM   #287
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I remembered to get pumpkin today! And garbanzo beans.
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Old 03-22-2009, 05:22 PM   #288
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There's a GREAT curry pumpkin soup recipe in the 500 low carb recipe book, if you have it.
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:59 PM   #289
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Dang, Heather, I don't have it!
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:47 AM   #290
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google low carb pumpkin curry soup and chances are you will find it.
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:33 PM   #291
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Heather, thanks for messaging me that pumpkin recipe.

Oh my goodness, people, I used a small amount of lentils (3/4 of a fourth of a cup) in my stuffed chicken breast tonight, and WOW was it a good dish.

I've been afraid to actually try the legumes--it's irrational, but I felt like "OMG! But--but they're starchy!"-- so this was a good breakthrough for me.

Filling for chicken breast:

1/2 cup chopped frozen spinach, 3/4-of-1/4-cup lentils, 3/4-of-1/4 cup feta cheese, 1 ounce oven-dried red bell pepper (measured raw prior to cooking) 1/2 ounce yellow onion.

I pounded a chicken breast flat and then rolled it up around the filling and secured it with toothpicks. Rubbed a teaspoon of olive oil on the chicken before baking for 1 hour at 350 degrees.

As good as anything you'd find in a restaurant, I swear to God!

Also I did my elliptical today, which I really needed to do.

How's everybody doing?
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:01 AM   #292
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peanutte, thanks for posting the chicken breast roll up--I'm in the mood for something different.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:30 AM   #293
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A word of caution: be prepared to get your hands slimy. (I hate dealing with raw chicken!)You will need about eight toothpicks, too.

It's probably easier to just say "3 tablespoons" instead of 3/4-of-1/4 cup...make sure they are not heaping tablespoons, though--very level.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:34 AM   #294
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baby steps are good see we do not need to fear the good for us foods. Beans are actually a mixed food they have protein, and carbs with the carb count being complex carbs ( starchy) and fiber which are both the good stuff Dr Atkins wants us to consume. You may never be able to consume a bowl of beans and 'bread ( a southern staple) but you can add some healthy beans to your bowl of salad, soup or chili and do just fine. And mashed beans as a veggie dip or as a spread on meats is a good thing too. if you do use refried beans check the lables to be sure the added fat is a healthy one if you go canned. being soy allergic I have to buy the fat free and then add my own healthy fat for hurry up dinners. I coated the top of my still warm cheese chips with the bean mix and then folded them over a parchemnt paper lined upside down cup to make leak proof taco cups for filling once I got to the legume rung.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:07 AM   #295
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You're right, 2big, I have to make peace with the fact that a big bowl of beans and brown rice, or black beans and tamales made with masa are not going to be on the menu for me. I used to make casseroles with black beans or pinto beans, brown rice and cut-up chicken with shredded cheese and salsa. Sure, those dishes were filling and cheap, but I do remember that it seemed I could eat heaping portions of it and never be satisfied despite being full. I also remember that after a big carby dinner like that, I'd feel kind of sleepy.

I'd rather be completely satisfied with a nice thick 5-ounce piece of seared ahi tuna marinated in lime juice, low-sodium soy sauce and ginger, and a side of fresh veggies with butter, which are both on the menu for tonight, as it so happens!

I just feel better in general eating veggies, protein, fat, and moderate dairy and eggs.

But as you know, I love to come up with new recipes, so I look forward to figuring out what else I want to do with a small amount of lentils or other legumes! I know that pureed garbanzo beans or white beans beans are an excellent way to thicken a soup.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:10 AM   #296
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Peanutte, how do you do "oven dried bell pepper"? How is it when it comes out?

I love peppers and am always trying to come up with new ways to eat them.
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:37 AM   #297
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Heather, I cut the desired amount (in this case, 2 ounces, weighed raw, for 2 servings) into strips and put them on a very lightly olive-oiled baking pan in a 300 degree oven for about...oh, I don't know, half an hour to forty five minutes, or until they have given up much of their liquid and shrunk some.

That way the flavor is more concentrated, and also you won't get the liquid from the vegetables messing up your delicious stuffing. Yesterday I put my onions in with the peppers, too, and they got lightly browned and had a more sweet, intense flavor.

Have you ever had "roasted red bell pepper"? It's usually kind of slimy, packed in a jar with olive oil. Well, if you roast them dry like I did, they aren't limp and slimy at all. They're just a little dried out and thus more flavorful.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:04 PM   #298
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yep we rethink the casseroles and the dishes. Since peppers both sweet and hot are induction vegies I put the "casserole" inside one of them. just 2 examples

I love pablanos stuffed with chopped up cooked chicken, pork, or beef, salsa 1/4 cup of cooked black beans and some of my cheese and then baked till the peppers are soft.

and italian stuffed green peppers with a veggie chicken cheese or veggie beef and cheese with white beans instead of rice, EEOV, and herbs works every well.
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:34 PM   #299
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Peanutte, that stuffed chicken recipe sounds really good. I hate working with raw chicken too. I'll have to try some stuffed peppers, my husband loves them. I'm not a green pepper lover, but I do love the milder yellow and red ones.

I've collected and shopped for some great new veggie recipes this week, I'll be doing an asian slaw (hubby doesn't like "creamy" so it's a good one using rice wine vinegar), a recipe for portobello mushrooms with fresh mozz. and tomatoes on top, an eggplant/tomato dish, and a few others. I bought a ham this week, and we usually make ham/bean soup with the bone and extra meat....I'll miss that this week as I'm not on the bean level yet. My husband and son love it though, and I can freeze some to try later. Today before I left for work I put some brisket in the crock pot, and made a home made, sugar free bbq sauce for it. It better turn out tender, or this is the last time I try to cook that meat!!! Every "sure thing" recipe I try for Brisket is so tough.

The thing I'm loving about OWL is the opportunity to expand and try new recipes, with the bigger ingredient list we have now. Well, I hope everyone is having a great week so far, it's been crazy busy at work, then when I'm hope my husband is on the computer so I haven't been able to check in!
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:38 PM   #300
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I love pablanos stuffed with chopped up cooked chicken, pork, or beef, salsa 1/4 cup of cooked black beans and some of my cheese and then baked till the peppers are soft.
HELLO! That is right up my alley. Thanks for the suggestion! My boyfriend roasts peppers when they are in season, fresh from the local vegetable stand, and he makes his own salsa every Sunday during the summer. So I'll present the challenge to him to help me come up with ways to use roasted peppers.

Hey! This summer I get to look at the vegetable stand through my Atkins Goggles. How fun will that be? We always rely heavily upon it all summer long, but this year will be different because I won't be eating gorgeous, fresh-from-the-field sweet corn and local peaches...I will admit that's a regret, but oh well!

Quote:
I'll be doing an asian slaw (hubby doesn't like "creamy" so it's a good one using rice wine vinegar)
Ah, good idea, mine doesn't like mayo dressings either.

Last edited by peanutte; 03-24-2009 at 12:39 PM..
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