3 cups or 20 carbs?

[Jetski]

When following induction, Dr. A recommends 3 cups of the allowed veggies yet when you add the "net" carbs (and for many of the whole carbs)-there is no way they will add up to 20 grms. Other than the eggs O have in the morning, I'm so far eating only meat or salmon(which has no carbs), butter, olive oil. Point being, I eat more vegetables than 3 cups a day.The veggies I had on the menu today were:
- 1 cup red pepper
-2 cups spinach
-6 asparagus spears
-1 cup alfalfa sprouts.
I would be more inclined to follow the 20 "net" carb rule since I need to get my fiber in. Thats with a capital N. I've had c problems for the last year.
What do you follow?

[Lisa Rae]

Ok..well yes, it's reccomended to have 3 cups of mixed salad (not just lettuce) or 2 cups salad and 1 cup other cooked vegies from the list. Then..your allowed up to 20 carbs. So..what YOU do with those other carbs is up to you. Personally..I'd rather have more veggies then eat 4 oz of cheese a day. In that..I get more good fiber..less fat and calores. Also..you need to add in things like eggs, cream, cheese, dressing and whatever else to get to that 20. I think it's more about what works for you. Some people feel more veggies work for them..and use their leftover carbs that way.some feel having more cheese..etc. makes them feel more satisfied. As long as you stick to the limits (and yes, cheese and credam are limited) and work on learning to eat when hungry and stop when content..how you use those extra carbs is up to YOU!

[spiderdust]

Originally Posted by Lisa Rae

Ok..well yes, it's reccomended to have 3 cups of mixed salad (not just lettuce) or 2 cups salad and 1 cup other cooked vegies from the list. Then..your allowed up to 20 carbs. So..what YOU do with those other carbs is up to you.

This is somewhat misleading, or at least the way I'm reading it is.

In induction, you're allowed to have 2-3 cups of mixed salad veggies (which include cucumbers, mushrooms, peppers, radishes, etc.) or 2 cups of the mixed salad veggies and 1 cup of other veggies (artichoke, celery root, pumpkin, artichoke hearts, rhubarb, asparagus, chard, sauerkraut, bamboo shoots, collard greens, scallions, snow peas, bean sprouts, dandelion greens, spaghetti squash, beet greens, eggplant, spinach, broccoli, hearts of palm, string or wax beans, broccoli rabe, kale, summer squash, brussels sprouts, kohlrabi, tomato, bean sprouts, leeks, turnips, cabbage, okra, water chestnuts, cauliflower, onion, or zucchini)

PERIOD. That's all the veggies you have per day for induction. Measure the veggies raw.

For each egg that you eat, count 1 carb. For each serving of cream that you use, count 1 carb. For each serving of artificial sweetener that you use, count 1 carb. For each serving of mayo, etc., count 1 carb.

You'll find that you do end up pretty close to the 20 grams of carbs per day!

[Lucky4]

My personal opinon about this is to stick with the 20 carbs. If you're not eating other stuff like cream, cheese, coffee,, tea, Splenda, etc...then by all means use up the 20 carbs in veggies--but don't go over--you may not get into ketosis then which is the whole idea of doing Induction in the first place. Once in ketosis and out of induction, you can then add in 5 carb increments until you hit your CCLL--to me--I will do it until I know it will knock me out of ketosis--probably not more than 25-30 at the most.
I know what Lisa Rae was trying to say--use your veggie carbs first then if you have leftovers (sticking under 20) then feel free to add other things to hit your 20. Oh, I also am doing the '72 version so there is no netting carbs.
Does this help--or make you more confused
Lucky4

[Jetski]

LOL....Confused? maybe, but this is what I am reading,
Eat the 3 cups sald veggies, or 2 cups salad plus 1 cup other veggies. Then add up the other carbs and you'll come close or hit 20 carbs. Im not going to do the "net" thing.
I'm also doing a KISS style because I cannot get certain items such as Splenda, LC shakes/ bars, cheese, pepperoni, luncheon meat-NOT even mayo- I have to make my own- but better though.
Im teaching in Taiwan right now and either that stuff does not have labels or I can't read them.
Since I have decaf with cream and eat about 3-5 eggs per day I can see what you mean by that they add up quickly.
Thanks

[Lisa Rae]

Jet..everyone has their own take..but if your doing Atkins *Kiss* style, then most of those 20 carbs should come from veggies.(because if your not having cheese and cream..and eggs are just .6 carbs each..how many carbs are you going to be getting..Atkins picked 20 carbs for a reason..and for most people, unles resistant or very heavy..20 is just for 2 weeks..you should then be moving up in carbs..and first thing he says to add is "more veggies) I personally think all the net, products and such have everyone lost. When I started..yes, I deducted fiber..but then again..I was eating Zero products..and so..all I ever deducted was fiber from veggies and fruit. Now you can not net if you choose..but fiber from whole foods( not producgts) does NOT get absorbed like regular carbs. It passes through..and is essential for the digestion with the higher protein way we eat.

Spider..sorry if my post was confussing, but I'm standing by it. One of the great things that made low-carb successful for me was I wasn't starving. if you have 10 carbs by way of salad or other veggies (minus fiber) then you in theory still have another 10 right? Atkins put limits on cheese and cream..but never said they we're essential for his plan..and some find they lose way slower when having the max of dairy. So..if you have 10 carbs left..there is nothing in the book that says you can't have say 5 more veggie carbs over 4 carbs of cheese..and from all my years of talking to people here..I find the ones that stick to veggies as thier main sorce of carbs..are the ones who tend to do better.

Let's face it..we don't count calories..but they do count..and your going to be takng in way less calories if you carbs are comming from veggies..then from what I see to be how people are useing them sometimes on this board.(cream cheese and cocoa for a snack?..clouds? products?..all much much higher in calories)

[spiderdust]

I will agree that 10 more carbs from veggies would be healthier than 10 more carbs from Atkins bars.

[Jetski]

You're right about the fiber- it doesnt get digested and Im only going to be doing this for 2 weeks max. Ive been adding up the veggies which I do go over the 3 cup max he suggests, and in the last 4 days have gone over 20 carbs (at 21 woo hoo). Im not hungry what so ever, and i know to eat and what to eat if I am.
I have more intense exercise sessions and the 20 is just too low after induction. Its hard to tell at this point what my body will work best at since the withdrawls are kickin' in right now.
Thanks everyone for your take....Im less in the clouds!
Im going to post some sample menus.

[3843]

Wait so you are saying Lisa Rae that you deduct fiber from vegetables and fruits but not other products?

[Lisa Rae]

3842,

Yeah..that's what *I* do..and it's worked well. Fiber from products can be tricky..they tend to play with numbers and % to get over on you (IMHO) many times the calories and their numbers don't add-up..and those calories have to be coming from somewhere!

I basically don't do any products now..maybe a piece of low-carb bread every 2 weeks..or a tortilla. Soy and I seem to have a problem big time! It makes my old injury (back and legs) flare -up!! I stick to protein, fat, low-sugar fruit and veggies. Even now that I'm maintaneing..I rarely eat any low-carb products...because I KNOW me..and I'm NOTgoing back to my old health!!!!

[gina59]

have you tried bran crispbread? 0 carbs only 16 calories.

[Lisa Rae]

I personally don't do products...but wonder how 100% of it could be fiber. If it's not..then something is wrong with the math. What is the fiber and protein count on those??