FIBER & DIGESTIVE SUPPLEMENTS

[MAMZELLE]

1- I have all three items below and have been taking only 250 magnesium so far because I still only have the ones containing starch, [no sugar] and waiting for the 'non' starch ones to arrive [both of the OTHERS below are totally free of sugar, salt, yeast, corn, gluten, soy, etc., even called the company to make sure]. I am wondering....

A- which of these sounds better and more effective to take
B- if the full dose should be taken daily and safe for a diabetic [6 daily for metamucil and 4 for the other]..
C- if they BOTH should/can be safely taken together per day, or would that be overkill.... not just concerned about it's 'purpose', but also healthwise SAFE to take all this, or if not, which would be the best.

2-If only one is needed at a time, then which in your opinion would be better and most effective. [The 3 carbs in Metamucil, they say, is non-digestible.... and that's total carbs per SIX pills].

3- I stay away from iron totally, but this Metamucil dosage seems minimal enough [0.4 per 6 pills]... is it?

4- Are the metamucil and/or Mason's safe together and along with high doses of magnesium, and any of the cross combinations safe.... I am also megadoseing many other vitamins. [Sorry if sounding repetitive, but just want to be very clear as to exactly 'what' I am asking, because I am totally UNFAMILIAR with all of these products and their functions, and never took any of them before, nor had any need to, andalways like to know as much as I can before introducing anything into my system...[and sometimes the company information isn't complete enough to me,
especially 'interactions' with other products that THEY can't answer for. Thanks....

METAMUCIL [PILLS]
SUPPLEMENT FACTS....per serving size: [6 per day]
total carbs...3
diatery fiber...3
soluable fiber...2
iron....0.4
INGREDIENTS
psyllium husk
gelatin
polysorbate 80
caramel color [they say the 'color' dyes are just the narrow rim around the capsule's outer casing]
red 40 lake
blue 1 lake
yellow 6 lake

"MASON'S NATURAL" DIGESTIVE AID COLON HERBAL CLEANSER [PILLS]....per serving size: [4 at bedtime]
INGREDIENTS
bentonite
psyllium
wheat grass
alfalfa
cascara sagrada
aloe vera
buckthorn
rhubarb
fennel
goldenseal
whey
fruit fiber
grain fiber
OTHER INGREDIENTS
magnesium stearate
gelatin
[I'm waiting for Mason's to call back to confirm that these ingredients have no carb content, although it clearly states "GUARANTEED" no sugar OR STARCH on the label, to me that's questionable and they are investigating it further in their other departments, since as we all know that carb FRACTIONS are not required to be listed, but do add up].

Also, are there FLAX ""PILLS"", and if so, are they as affective? I eat mostly solid foods therefore nothing to really sprinkle them INTO every single day so PILLS would be more convenient for me on those days.

Being on induction indefinitely in the future, and for many months already, I am becoming increasingly concerned about fiber, and regularity issues.

Vegetables and salad were NOT helping at all, though with the 250 magnesium, also 'softners', and having taken one day's worth of the metamucil for the first time yesterday it seemed to but not sure it's because of that. But I need information for the ongoing long term process and to KEEP things going this way.... and what would be best on a REGULAR basis from now on, and not liking the idea of taking ALL of this... as I said above, what would be the best one [or 2] to stick to and try first [my DF keeps sending me these things, so I'm inundated with choices].... and if there's any detriment from these products to weight loss, but more importantly .......to high blood sugar.

PS... EVERYONE..... please feel free to contribute with your own knowledge and experiences. Thanks

[lilroten]

I don't have an answer, but would like to know what A_N says. I take Magnesium too, but the only way I see any action is if I take 1000 mg. I had an appt with my doctor this week and he suggested Metamucil powder mixed with a drink. The Metamucil I found in the store has sugar, however, Benefiber is sugar free. I bought some, but have yet to see it work. I've tried fiber pills with no success. I drink atleast 96 oz a day (often 120 oz), and eat 2 small salads or 1 large a day.

>sigh<

[MAMZELLE]

I also have "Citrucel" SUGAR FREE powder in the house but haven't been able to face using it. I probably couldn't even get that kind of substance down so it's still sealed, and I got the Metmucil PILLS instead. [I can't believe that taking two of them 3x per day [6]yesterday for only ONE day so far, is what really helped, but I'll soon see if that's what it was as I go along with more experimenting. {I didn't take the ''Mason's Natural's" brand yet, which also has psyllium. I don't like having ALL these products so it's getting me frustrated at first till I get it down to only one.... which I HOPE I can, and want to know which has the best reputation of all, to eliminate trial and error and save time...... and I also don't want to have to be a slave to 6 pills per day spread out 3 times!

If you can use those substances and prefer powder form mixed in a drink, Citrucel DOES have the sugar free powder [perhaps Metamucil too and your store just didn't have it at the time]. I drink a gallon of water per day and that never helped me either. It's been a little better though since I've been taking the magnesium, but not sure I can credit it to that because that's only been 250 mg, per night, [because I don't want more than one of those because of the starch content]. But in the Atkins Diabetic book, it says NOT to take more than 350 per day so I've been confused and cautions about taking more than my 250 dosage per pill.... two would be 500, having to do with affecting low blood pressure, it said. I'm also still taking 400 E [having lowered it from 800 per day] which is said to have the possibility of RAISING blood pressure. If I knew 'then' what I [don't] know now...... I'd have gone to medical school if only to avoid VERTIGO from all this confusion! :-(

[ps.... Mason's Naturals just called back and the carb ct. is only .06 per 4 pills so the fruit and grain fibers and other ingredients I guess are ok and she repeated that it's ''guaranteed'', which is also on the label, so is now another line of products I'll feel comfortable in trusting, and are also all natural.]

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

Hi Mamzelle,

I’ll try to address all your questions, and I apologize if I miss any.

First, I want to say that it worries me that you are aiming to follow Induction indefinitely. That is not the intention of the Atkins Nutritional Approach. Limiting to 20 g of Net Carbs per day is the phase which jump starts your weight loss, but then you learn how to find the threshold of carbs at which you can maintain your weight by adding back carbs slowly throughout the phases. Supplements are important for ‘insurance’ that you are not missing out on any vitamins, minerals, or fiber, but are only to ‘supplement’ the whole foods that you include. If you stay on Induction, you may be limiting yourself of nutrients right from the food source and should never rely on supplements in the meal planning for you lifetime. There are doses of supplements that may show beneficial or therapeutic effects above a certain level to treat or prevent a disease, but relying on supplements to meet your minimum requirement to maintain your health is totally missing the point of the Atkins Nutritional Approach. Your attention should be put into whole foods and not into supplements.

It also worries me that you say you are megadosing on many vitamins. Just like certain drugs you may take may cause interactions with nutrients, nutrients to can cause nutrient-nutrient interactions. A diverse array of adverse health effects can occur as a result of the interaction of nutrients. The potential risks of adverse nutrient-nutrient interactions increase when there is an imbalance in the intake of two or more nutrients. Excessive intake of one nutrient may interfere with absorption, excretion, transport, storage, function, or metabolism of a second nutrient. Interactions that significantly elevate or reduce bioavailability may represent adverse health effects. It is also important to consider whether the nutrient is from a food source or from a supplement as this can also effect how much is actually absorbed. With megadosing, there is no telling how much will be absorbed, how much will effect the absorption of other nutrients, and how the supplements will effect the nutrient absorption from food sources. This is why megadosing has the potential to be so dangerous.

If you are concerned about not getting enough fiber, supplementation is a good idea for ‘insurance’, but not for megadosing. In terms of which fiber supplement to take- from the info you provided, you would get an additional 18 g of fiber per day (3 g/pill,6 pills). With the Mason’s, you did not provide info about how many g per pill so I cannot compare. If they are comparable, is a matter of preference- if you want to take 4 pills per day vs 6 pills. I wouldn’t be concerned with the iron content, as long as you are not megadosing on either nutrient. And I am not aware of a specific brand of flax pills, but a colleague of mine says that are available.

If you focus on the whole foods in your meal planning, supplementing only what you are concerned you may be lacking for insurance, than you don’t really have to worry about nutrient-nutrient interactions. If you would like to take a higher dose of a nutrient b/c of the potential health benefits for disease treatment or prevention, then you must consider the other supplements you take and also what your meal planning looks like. This should be discussed with your doctor, because then, the supplements you are taking for health benefits above the minimum requirement (from food, and if necessary, supplementation) may interfere with medications.

[MAMZELLE]

Firstly, thank you so much for such a comprehensive answer. It's funny, I have advised many people just what you've said in mostly the same exact words about interactions even between what most people are under the wrong impression are 'harmless'..... vitamin supplements having potential danger and also preventing absorbtion and I
understand that very well. I'm not taking any medications in addition to that, so let's get that out of the way. I'm not really focusing on supplements as a substitute for foods, and don't believe in that at all. I do get ample food and am very conscious of making sure to do that even when not hungry.

What I'm taking is a combination of what Dr. Atkins told me to take many years ago, and what is also in the books, [except for the excessive 3000 of C if being a smoker which he told me personally] and I've basically followed that general profile all my life especially the higher doses when on the diet more strictly... and also a combination of the
new Diabetes Revolution and Dr. Bernstein's book just to cross reference, compare and I'm a believer in second, third and fourth opions to evaluate and ultimately be able to come to my own educated decisions and conclusions. I certainly wouldn't just go out and stuff myself with all this stuff on my own. I always use a guidline and fall within the moderate area of even the high doses, not even near the highest suggested. When I say megadose, I mean more diversified in variety of different ones, [the many different vitamins] more than higher 'doses', which is also the problem you are referring to... but not without making sure that they are compatable according to what I read, in fact my latest list WAS taken from Diabetes Revolution to revise what I've been doing to allow for my recent high sugar [without medication].

Now I have the additional problem of that, so have been adding only what is suggested in not only the new Atkins Diabetes book, but just general things that I've been reading and hearing are specifically for diabetics and have stated the same..... and I have to hear or read that from at LEAST 3 or 4 different reliable sources in order to even really start paying attention to anything.

I myself when reading things, even from Atkins material, often think ''this is just too too much for any one person to be bothered with" but I TRY to cover the basics that sound important among all the others, but it's difficult for a non-medical person to make those judgements so the only alternative is to take a LITTLE more of mostly everything since it is things that are suggested in such large quantities even by the professionals. I have scrutinized Chapter 11 [vitamins.... or near '11'] and the one after, also related and an extention of it, and made extensive and detailed notes of names and suggested amounts for each ailment, so how is one to KNOW which is too much or non-compatable
with others. When it's written in a book from such notable and respected sources, we 'assume' the interactions are safe, but still I had and have many questions and have written them right here all over the place in many of the threads I have started in these QA forums, for the nutritionists to help me with, but the answers weren't extensive enough or missed many questions and nuances of questions, so it's difficult. One or two were not even visited at all, and if they were, those were only read and not replied to, if I remember correctly. No big deal. Just really glad to have you all here at ALL, which is a privilege. *smile*

It's hard to believe in this day and age, there are still doctors out there who either don't approve of what USED TO BE 'alternative medicine' [and I hope is changing very fast to 'middle of the road' and 'conservative' medicine'] or they are just not knowledgeable enough about all of this to even earn my attention, nor my respect, so very difficult to even find an adequate doctor.

I tried a while back, when not yet knowing if Dr. Atkins passed his medical practice on to someone else, and was told that he didn't, when I called the clinic, and that it ended and I was astounded and was in that very extensive conversation with a lovely person there, and had a terrible feeling of even MORE loss, than at his death alone.... and it was also still located right near me and so convenient in Manhattan, but I was out of luck. No more Atkins to turn to when finally in real trouble and needing him the most.

I also asked for references that his former practice might have to refer us to but there were none I was told, and I hadn't spoken to him in a long time, although we had kept in touch through the years, and I was even at one of his last lectures a couple of years ago at city hall on West 50 something street, only a few blocks away from me, and
treasure the photos of us that were taken and the opportunity to see him again before he was so devastatingly 'gone' in such a flash.

So here I am on my own with no Atkins any longer in the world, and after having been so totally wrapped up in my mother's illness, and HER doctors and extending HER life for the last 3 years [40 years with diabetes, then lately cancer and alzheimers]..... that I totally neglected my own. Okay, my own fault. We are often our own worst enemies. But i was never sick a day in my life and do contribute that to starting out with atkins, and MAYBE....... just maybe, also the vitamins I've always taken. No colds..... NOTHING, therefore never even NEEDED a doctor. Not even once since a teenager... and not even THEN. Went to Atkins just for nutrition accompanying my mother for her diabetes.

But back to the subject, sorry for digressing, I know your time is limited. I am getting PLENTY of healthy foods.... and feel that I am merely eating as though I had been born on a planet where people are only even AWARE of healthy things, and where it is not yet contaminated, still without what we were taught in a country gone haywire with marketing to give us addictions.

If I [and ALL of us] were born eating what I am now, on induction, and nothing ELSE ever.... I would have been fine so I don't really see what's wrong with induction. I do believe in balance, which does include carbohydrates, in the overall scheme of things, but AM getting that in the right places but not obsessing with them, and keeping them VERY low, which I feel is the right way to live anyway, and the wrong ones would raise my sugar, so why NOT stick close to induction indefinitely, with only an occasional thing here and there. [Doctor Bernstein says he hasn't eaten a fruit in 30 years and is still here long surviving HIS own personal 50 year diabetic duration], so I can certainly do without my cantelope..... the only 'traditional' type fruit that I miss, anyway. :-(

My personal body chemistry does NOT allow for many carb additions which I've already learned from a lifetime of following this and I always have to restrict myself on a regular daily basis, with allowing more only on occasions when 'out' in 5 star restaurants [any place else wasn't WORTH cheating for lol] and if I couldn't resist something here and there. [I am DREADING my first holidays but certainly DO know how to eat on a lifetime basis of this, having BEEN doing it for a lifetime.... but scary knowing that having something NOW, could kill me or contribute to it]. Now, I am not allowed to even do that, and also very afraid to.

I admit there is a lot of fear involved, being an old hand at Atkins, but a very new one with my own high sugar. I know it well from a distance with my mother all my life, but it's quite a different thing when it's our 'own'. And it's very frightening. Atkins was easy..... Diabetes is NOT. It is ''Forever'' with absolutely no reprise nor cheating in-between. It's so 'absolute' and not optional like it is for others..... there isn't even a 'choice'. I'm a person who can't do things a LITTLE bit so I might as well keep myself completely safe. It is no less than ultimately and finally having landed...... in pure Hell.

Again... I really appreciate the time you've taken in your reply, filled with such wonderful information. I've never seen that before here to that extent, it is a pleasure communicating with you, and I thank you for it.

I also want to read your post through again and absorb what you said, my response above was from only one quick reading of it. [they didn't give the fiber gram count on the other bottle and meticulous me.... forgot to ask on the phone, I was so busy asking about everything else. I assume the minimum general 'requirement' is 25-30? I think that's what I read. around these boards. I've never really dealt with all that before [fiber]. Never had any problems with it on atkins. Or if I did, it certainly wasn't noticable or to my knowledge. So 18, + the rest in vegs & salad is enough?