Atkins Nutritionist -- Perimenopause and Stalling

[goodcelt]

Hi. I hope you can offer some suggestions for me. I've posted but not on this particular forum.

I'm 51, perimenopausal, and can't seem to make that scale go down. I'm not counting net carbs, I'm using Fit Day, staying away from malitol, olives & pork rinds (salt retention), limiting my cheese, not cheating, and drinking water. I'm not eating "hidden carbs".

I have seen the scale go down to 224.5 but I haven't hit 224 since the first time I did. I didn't change my stats because I didn't want it to make me feel bad. I keep recording my events on Fit Day.

I'm trying to hang in there, and I know I'm not the only one this is happening to. If it wasn't for Low Carb Friends, I would have already thrown the towel in. Today, I even started thinking, well, heck, I might as well be eating bread and butter, and pasta, at this rate.

My typical food includes mock danish, bacon or sausage and eggs, romaine salad w/chicken or shrimp or beef on top, Drew's salad dressing, coffee w/cream or half-n-half, DaVinci's sf syrups, hard boiled eggs w/mayo, green beans, occasional cheese (cheddar, fresh mozzarella), a very occasional slice of tomato (but not for long, as my garden is coming to a halt), an absolute teeny amount of onion, MAYBE once a week. I made flax seed cereal once. I sometimes mix cream cheese and cocoa together w/splenda when I have those PMS cravings. I have not touched the Atkins peanut butter cups in my drawer, nor have I touched the Zbars. I sometimes use splenda sweetened whipped cream (Land O Lakes).

What can I do?

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

It may be related to portion sizes, you did not provide this info. so I cannot know for sure.

If it is due to hormones, you may need to work with a knowledgable doctor. If your hormones are not balanced, it can be devastating to your mostivation to stay on plan. Hormone repalcement therapy is often not the right solution.


OR, maybe you can work with someone in your local area that can help you?

If you provide more info. on portion sizes I may be able to help. Do you exercise and how much water are you drinking? Do you take supplements?

[goodcelt]

OK, I'm going to read the site you sent me. I don't believe my portions have been too large. And, no, I haven't been exercising; just housework and gardening. I also bought an exercise mat at the consignment shop where I volunteer and plan on doing floor exercises on that to music that I like. That's what I like to do when I exercise. I'm not ready to take long walks yet.

But, for example, two eggs, 3 strips of bacon; 1 oz sausage and 2 eggs; 2 cups of lettuce/cabbage/spinach; 3/4 cup cooked veggies; 1/2 chicken breast; 2 oz. cream cheese once or twice a day.

Forgot to mention that my mouth wasn't feeling ketosis-like for a couple of days but I've got it back today.

Thanks for getting back to me.

[nonstickpam107]

I ran into this same problem once I started into menopause. I found out the thyroid doesn't like to work without adequate progesterone. Since the thyroid controls metabolism, that can really throw a wrench into the works!

This is also the reason that so very many peri and post meno ladies go hypothyroid, too. Once I worked with my endocrinologist at balancing my estradiol, progesterone and thyroid hormones (T4, T3) and quit eating all SOY (soy binds your thyroid hormones, but it sounds like you are eating whole foods, not soy), weightloss became easier on this WOE and I've been maintaining (just think, ME, a Hashimoto's hypothyroid patient maintaining....woohoo) for over two years.

Pam

[goodcelt]

Hi, nonstickpam. Thank you for your reply.

I have done a little research about the bioidentical stuff and my gyn said she would help me with it if I wanted. She said they don't know what the long-term affects of it are but that she can do it for me if I want.

I had bloodwork done months ago because I was so tired and I wasn't getting very much sleep. That's when it was proven that I was in perimenopause. She gave me Ambien to help me sleep. It really helped. Got me back to where I needed to be. So far, no other problems other than the occasional feeling hot.

But if my weight loss is slowed because of these hormones, I need to go get help. My thyroid was check along with the other stuff when my bloodwork was done and no problem there. Maybe I need progesterone.

The only soy that I've had was in the one scoop of Atkins Shake Powder I had when I made some Flaxseed Cereal last week. Other than that, no soy for me.

Please write back or private msg me if you want. Sounds like you know about this stuff.

[Da Rosa]

Originally posted by nonstickpam107
I ran into this same problem once I started into menopause. I found out the thyroid doesn't like to work without adequate progesterone. Since the thyroid controls metabolism, that can really throw a wrench into the works!

This is also the reason that so very many peri and post meno ladies go hypothyroid, too. Once I worked with my endocrinologist at balancing my estradiol, progesterone and thyroid hormones (T4, T3) and quit eating all SOY (soy binds your thyroid hormones, but it sounds like you are eating whole foods, not soy), weightloss became easier on this WOE and I've been maintaining (just think, ME, a Hashimoto's hypothyroid patient maintaining....woohoo) for over two years.

Pam

Hi Pam! Im not into menopause (Im only 20yrs) but I havent had my TOM in a year and when I whent to get my thyroid (among other stuff) mý TSH was 2.5, T4 1.08, T3 201 and my estrogen (S-Östradiol-känslig: 74C.. swedish) was low. When she did an ultra sound she also found a little of something that PCOS patients have but that is just treated with birthcontroll pills. Now, this doc was terrible because she began with saying I dont have anything relater to weight gain and that its all nomal... while giving me a mocking tone through the whole speach! And then,¨she refused to give me a copy of the test! I got so sad... and then finally she gave me one (probrably in fear of a lawsuite) and also got me an appointment with a specialist... I had to cry and have a breakdown for that?! Oh well... at least I got what I wanted.

What Im wondering is if the low estrogen is related to the hypo or weight gain?

[nonstickpam107]

I need the lab ranges for each of those tests. There are quite a few here (nobimbo for one) that know about PCOS, and I do know that she should have gotten a testosterone test on you if it's that. Insulin resistance goes hand in hand with PCOS too...and thyroid...it's all interconnected.

You need a good endocrinologist at this point, perhaps even a reproductive endocrinologist would be your best bet.

Pam

[Da Rosa]

Originally posted by nonstickpam107
I need the lab ranges for each of those tests. There are quite a few here (nobimbo for one) that know about PCOS, and I do know that she should have gotten a testosterone test on you if it's that. Insulin resistance goes hand in hand with PCOS too...and thyroid...it's all interconnected.

You need a good endocrinologist at this point, perhaps even a reproductive endocrinologist would be your best bet.

Pam

Well this is the result:_______________** Ref.value

TSH: 2,5 ____________________________0,4-4,7 mU/L
4T free: 14 __________________________12-23 pmol/L
3T free: 3,1__________________________3,0-6,5 pmol/L

This is exactly what it sais, but it is in sweidish:
B-Hemoglobin: 126_____________________115-145 g/L

Erc-Volymfrakt, EVF: 37%________________37%-43%

S-Tyrotropin,THS: 2,5
S-Tyroxin fritt: 14
S-Trijodtyr fritt: 3,1

Then some other stuff:
Erc-Volymfrakt,EVF: 37
S-Koriongonadotropin: <2
S-Testosteroner, S-T: 0,7_________________nmol/L fertil: <2,8
S-Sexghormonbind.glob: 38_______________nmol/L >19yrs: 25-105
S-Foll.stim.hormon: 7,2A__________________IU/L
S-Luteiniser.hormon: 2,6B_________________IU/L
S-Östradiol-känslig (<-sensitive): 74C________pmol/L
S-Prolaktin: 9,3__________________________ug/L <18

I managed to convert the pmol/L to pg/dL through this:

Conversion
* to convert from the conventional unit to the SI unit, multiply by the conversion factor;
* to convert from the SI unit to the conventional unit, divide by the conversion factor.

Component Conventional Unit Conversion Factor SI Unit

Thyrotropin (TSH) mIU/L 1.0 mIU/L
Thyroxine, free (T4) ng/dL 12.87 pmol/L
Thyroxine, total (T4) µg/dL 12.87 nmol/L

Triiodothyronine
Free (T3) pg/dL 0.0154 pmol/L
Resin uptake % 0.01 Proportion of 1.0
Total (T3) ng/dL 0.0154 nmol/L

Source: http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/s...nical_data.html:

Ok, so this is what I came up with:

THS: 2,5
T4: 1.08
T3: 201,3

And this is how it should be:
THS - 0.3 to 3.0
Free T4 - 0.8 to 1.8.
Free T3 – 230 to 420.

Then this means my THS is "normal high", Free T4 is normal I would think and my Free T3 is low! Ok, so what does this mean. Does it mach in to any spesific sympton? Wilson's? What else?

[Da Rosa]

http://www.unc.edu/%7Erowlett/units/...ical_data.html

[nobimbo]

Hi there,

First off, your FSH/LH (follicle stimulating hormone/lutenizing hormone) ratio is out of whack; the normal ratio is 1:1, yours is more than 3:1. This kind of ratio is commonly found in women with PCOS, btw. It would be good to have a progesterone level to compare to the estrogen level, too; even if the estrogen seems a bit low (and that really depends on what time of your cycle the test was done), if your progesterone is even lower, then you could still be having symptoms of estrogen-dominance.

When she did an ultra sound she also found a little of something that PCOS patients have but that is just treated with birthcontroll pills.

Hmm, sounds like she may have seen cysts on your ovaries. Birth control pills will only mask the symptoms of PCOS, but it won't treat the underlying problem, which is thought to be insulin resistance. You really need to have a fasting insulin test to help determine if you are insulin-resistant; however, there are some experts who believe that most women with PCOS are insulin-resistant, even if it doesn't show up in blood tests. Since PCOS is a syndrome and not a disease, the diagnosis is often based on symptoms, which can vary among individuals. Click on this link for a detailed listing of PCOS symptoms:

http://www.inciid.org/faq/pcos1.html#1.2

Taking an insulin-sensitizing med such as Metformin can often help to normalize the female hormones, the menstrual cycle, and restore fertility. Losing weight can also alleviate the symptoms of PCOS, but that is very difficult to do when insulin levels are high. That is why meds such as Metformin and reducing carb intake are so helpful with this syndrome.

About your thyroid tests: Just looking at the levels and ranges before you did the conversion, your FT3 AND your FT4 both look very low. While the numbers are "in range", they really should be at least in the mid lab range, and most feel best when they are in the upper quadrant. Your TSH of 2.5 isn't too bad, but most feel best when it is closer to 1.0.

Sorry you had such a bad experience with your doc. If possible, you might try to find another doc who has more experience, knowledge, and sensitivity to PCOS and thyroid issues so that you can get a more thorough evaluation. Your thyroid tests are suspect enough to warrant a TPO antibodies test to check if you have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (an autoimmune thyroid disorder that is very common in women with PCOS, and is the most common form of hypothyroidism). You also need further evaluation for PCOS.

Good luck,

Linda

[nonstickpam107]

Couldn't have said it better, Linda, thank you!! The poster's T4 and T3 are so low...that if it was me, I wouldn't be able to crawl to the doctors. I've also seen low numbers go back and forth wildly when the patient has Hashimoto's...the varience can be 3 or more points for both thyroid hormones.

The thyroid doesn't work well without progesterone either, and that is how that ties in. Synthetic hormones (and a hormone imbalance) can also bind part of the usable thyroid hormones in the body.

The only way that I got through five years of balancing my hormones (too late for me on the PCOS...I went menopausal very early from untreated Hashimoto's) was to make sure my insulin resistance was being treated with Atkins way of eating....and making sure I found a doctor with a LOT of experience with hormones, including thyroid hormones.

Pam

[Da Rosa]

Wow nonstickpam & nobimbo, I had no idea it was all that bad. Oooh, its just soo anoying with these doctors who just go aroúnd saying its all good!

I just had a look at my mothers thyroid test she did a while ago and all they had done was check the bloodsugar, iron and some other little thing... no TSH,FT3,FT4... nope nothing and then they say she doesnt have anything. We both did the test 3 years ago in Ecuador and he saud that my mother does have Hypo...and now its BAD! She is overwheight, mostylt on the middle, she is allways tired, she cant lose weight (she did atkins for a while and lost 12lb the first 2 weeks b ut I think it was b/c she was starving, no hunger=zero food! and then nothing) and she doesnt eat much at all, shes almost bald... the list is long. I´going to tell the endo this and make sure they get her some real tests.

Its not stravnge that we both are hypo, all femals from my mothers side have it and they are all on medication except one aunt that simply cant afford it... she weighs 300lb and have little kids and granchildren that she has to take care of. We gave her some money one period so taht she could get the meds and she lost at least 20lb¨just like that*. Same thing happend to me when I was 17 and weighed 190lb... I lost 30lb in two months, but then when I was back in Sweden and that meds (2x, my mom had given me her meds too, Levoxin and Douromine) were out I gained 20 really fast and had to starv myself with weight wachers for 6 months tó get that of... eventually nothing worked unless I was down to 8-14 Points!

I have been losing (2-3lb) weight sence that day at the doctors but thats just bcause I havent had tha big of an appetite... I only eat about 1000-1400 calories a day now, but I cant keep it up forever.

Sight. Im such a emotional and depressed person, I dont like it. Acctully Im not really like that... but then I am and I tend to shut people out if fear that they wont like me once they really get to know me, because... almost everyone really likes me in the begining ´but then I always se that disapointed, sight and fedup look in their eyes at the end. So I get alot of new friends every new semester... but I never hang on to them. I really wanna break that pattern b/c Im soo lonely. Also... it is VERY hard to get close to people here in Sweden, they ar SO private, shy and cold, but then again I always tend to find people I like...and open them up. I just think that I will be a much more plesant person to be around when I become a more... motivated person, happy, not depressed, and not just shut myself im my room. I whine about my weight and me being fat way too much, people get fedup and tired of trying to build up my selfasteem.
Looking back... I cant believe that I thought I was THAT fat, I wasnt THAT fat, I was 20 lb lighter! I need to get this moving, Im even scared of entering any relationship... (Im talking to this nice lookin (thin) guy right now) and I cant believe that he likes me, "Ok I have a pretty face, but now I AM fat!". ...Im rambeling.

Anyway, thatnk you all SO much! Now Im really prepared for the doctorsapointment!

Gracias!//Priscilla Da Rosa

[nonstickpam107]

Priscilla, thyroid disease makes us feel that way. There's a very good forum for those with thyroid disease (all the kinds) at www.about.com and look for the thyroid disease forum. Get a username and start reading. Knowledge is power.

Depression and anxiety are two things that thyroid disease do to you. Thyroid hormones are not a weightloss thing for most people unless it's just water weight the first couple of weeks. The least expensive thyroid hormone is a natural one called Armour Thyroid here. Yet doctors seem to want to give T4 only, or some until your labs are looking better, and then the doctor can tell if you convert T4 to T3....these are, of course, the doctors that actually study thyroid disease.

Soy is something that will inhibit the thyroid further. Some very noted thyroidologists feel that eating under 30 net grams of carb a day will inhibit T4 to T3 conversion...this could be the 'link' to all those articles about lowcarb and depression, not a mental thing, more of a conversion thing.

Pam

[Da Rosa]

Originally posted by nonstickpam107
Priscilla, thyroid disease makes us feel that way. There's a very good forum for those with thyroid disease (all the kinds) at www.about.com and look for the thyroid disease forum. Get a username and start reading. Knowledge is power.

Depression and anxiety are two things that thyroid disease do to you. Thyroid hormones are not a weightloss thing for most people unless it's just water weight the first couple of weeks. The least expensive thyroid hormone is a natural one called Armour Thyroid here. Yet doctors seem to want to give T4 only, or some until your labs are looking better, and then the doctor can tell if you convert T4 to T3....these are, of course, the doctors that actually study thyroid disease.

Soy is something that will inhibit the thyroid further. Some very noted thyroidologists feel that eating under 30 net grams of carb a day will inhibit T4 to T3 conversion...this could be the 'link' to all those articles about lowcarb and depression, not a mental thing, more of a conversion thing.

Pam

Oh thanks for clearing that up for me. Ok, theres stuff in my life not to be very happy about but to get grumpy, sad ánd depressed all the time for no specific reason just wasnt making sence to me. Like today... I was taking a all day long Harthat Yoga class and when we where told to meditate and také deep breaths in the begining I could just feel the anxiety... like I could do those breaths or I would cry?! I just read about the hyo symptomes in the About.com and they fit in perfectly.

Symptoms of Hypothyroidism (An underactive thyroid)

fatigue, exhaustion...............................yup.
feeling run down and sluggish..............yup.
depression........................................ ....yup.
difficulty concentrating, brain fog..........YES!! This is mostly why I cant eat too little calories... and when I get it bad I tent to eat too much!!
unexplained or excessive weight gain...Yes!
dry, coarse and/or itchy skin..................Hmm, was wors before. I think Atkins helped thet bigtime.
dry, coarse and/or thinning hair.............I have hair but I shred hair all the time! My mom had her hair just as thick if not thicker that me when she was young but now its so thin you can see her har!!
feeling cold, especially in the extremities...it varies, Ill get cold, Ill cet hot flashes, Il get cold sweats.
constipation...................................... .....Oh, yes VERY bad. I still do and it HURTS!
muscle cramps......................................yupp, ocationally Ill feel like its PMS cramps, but its not. I was very sensetve today.
increased menstrual flow....................nope, nonexisting.
more frequent periods........................nope.
infertility/miscarriage...........................probrably, had unprotected sex for 6 moths last year and I never got preagnant. I thought it was him or thanks to the "timing".

The worse symptomes is the constipation, weightgain/stall, hair and anxiety/depression. Ooh and the paleness and dark circles under my eyes, specially in the morning.

I knew about the soy and the 30 netcabs. The period when I gained alot I didnt, I was baking with soyflour alot and doing all kinds of fasts and calories restrictions. So whenever I whent back to Induction I would gain all the "Fastloss" back.

[Bees KneesII]

"...this could be the 'link' to all those articles about lowcarb and depression,..." (Nonstickpam)

Pam I would very much like to read those articles! Where can I find them? I have done searches but not been successful.

Thank you
Elissa

[nonstickpam107]

I'm referring to the articles NOT actually being depressed from lowcarbing, but from carbs/calories so low that it slows the thyroid and the T4 to T3 conversion.

Dr. Broda Barnes and others have said the carbs less than 30 NET can induce diminished T4 to T3 conversion. And of course, depression is one of the major symptoms of thyroid disease.

Pam

[Da Rosa]

Someone advised me to take 200 mcg/daily of selenium for a month and then decrease it to 100mcg.

I had stopped LCing, did more of an semi LC with low GI foods. OMG, the calories where less but I gained soo much in soo little time! I did this so that the doctors would stop blaming my diet for whats happening and then I left the blod for all them tests today. I glad to say Im back lowcarbing as of today. I have lost some weight this last week but that b/c of the emptystomac workout Iv done and te very low calories Iv been stying at. (1200-1400 most of the days) I think I have to keep my calories kinda low for a while to se any results... lets say from 1200 to 1700 depending on how active I am? I fpund out that my good ol' SF gums helped alot, Im not giving them up.

Im hoping that the doctor will put me on some treatment based on the results of the current tests and them let me do those futher tests. The insulin levels, progestorone among others.

Okeey, the 15th of november is the day I get to meet my endo. Wish me luuck.

[bunkie]

Hi. Just thought I relate what happened to me.
I am in menopause. I take a natural supplement called Simplex F. It is a natural hormone balancer. I also take 1000 mg of chromium for my blood sugar. I also take Armour thyroid. I also exercise 3 times a week. Circuit training and weight lifting. I had not lost anything for months. I am now a size 14 down from a size 18 (started at 22). I don't weigh myself. Anyway, the only thing I changed when I went down to a 14 was my weight lifting routine. I did different exercises with the weights and added extra chrominum (was taking 500 mg went up to 1000). Now it seems that I kicked up my metabolism somehow because I am losing again. As a matter of fact, the 14s are somewhat loose.
Hope this helps.

[Bees KneesII]

Bunkie,

Thanks for your reply. My main problem now is unexplained high blood sugar readings. For example, 271 this morning. I sat there in shock for about a minute and then retested and got 161. Is my 3mo old meter faulty???? This makes no sense.

Elissa

[picaboo]

........have you heard or read this ?....maybe that will help in away.........

http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com...t/readit.shtml

[Bees KneesII]

Thank you Picaboo. I read Dr Bernstein's great book years ago and maybe it's now time for a review. I have bookmarked the link you sent and will check it out.

Elissa

[nonstickpam107]

I am in process of being diagnosed with Type 1.5 diabetes. LADA, autoimmune type.

I was told to drop my protein to less than 21 grams a meal....the excess protein was spiking my blood sugars. I'm not finding a whole LOT on this type of diabetes, anyone who has it, or knows firsthand from a relative that has it?

Pam

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

Hi Pam,
My colleagues and I have never actually heard this being termed type 1.5 diabetes. Individuals that are diagnosed as Type 2 all have different manifestations of the disease whether it be that the pancreas isn’t putting out enough insulin, whether the muscles aren’t recognizing the insulin and letting the blood sugar into the cells, whether the liver is putting out too much glucose, etc, and combinations of all the causes I just listed as well as others that would lead disease development. In the combination that you have, you’re muscles are not resistant to insulin but your pancreas may not be putting out enough insulin and you liver is putting out too much glucose. I wouldn’t think that you need to restrict protein and I wouldn’t think that it would spike your blood sugars, but if that is what you have been advised to do by your doctor, I would follow those instructions. I do not know enough about your medical history or about your diagnosis and it would be irresponsible to give you advice. Discuss with your doctor to learn more about this condition and the treatment and also ask that he recommends a nutritionist familiar with meal planning.

[nonstickpam107]

Um, nope, saw a specialist today, there IS a LADA autoimmune Type I diabetes.......I do show the antibodies (the test is called a GAD65).

I'm flabbergasted.

Thanks for the help.

Pam