A few more thyroid/carb count questions

[MammaC]

Hi,
Could you please explain why it is important for someone with hypothyroid to eat at least 30-35 carbs a day? Also, does this mean that one who is hypothyroid should not do a 20 carb induction? And one more question. Dr Atkins said in the book that when on maintanance to use the 20 carb induction to help control small weight gains that might occur. What should someone someone who is hypothyroid do to get back down that few pounds that might creep up from time to time?

Thank you so much for your help.

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

For someone who is doing Atkins and is hypothyroid and not losing, it may mean that the body is not getting enough carbs to help the body burn calories/fat.

Yes, I would say start out at 30-35 grams and see if you lose at this threshold. It may be a trial and error situation but it is a better starting point than 20 grams of carbs. Use the 30-35 gram starting point as your "Induction" phase to use when you need to take off a couple extra pounds. This should consist of 1/2 a grapefruit and maybe 1 oz of nuts. It is not a license to eat forbidden foods.

[MammaC]

Thank you for your reply. I just wanted to understand why I needed to raise my carbs. I can promise you that I don't intend to cheat and eat forbidden foods. I have been on Atkins for about seven months now, and I have not eaten anything I shouldn't. I'm not wanting to know so I can eat the wrong way, but so I will be sure and eat the right way. I asked the question about induction because it might be important for someone else. I a passed that phase now, but I stayed at 20 carbs for the first five months because I thought it would help me lose better. Then I just raised my limit 5 carbs. I have eaten 30-35 a few times, but always tryed to keep it below that because I thought that was the right thing to do. Now I understand why eating less carbs didn't help. The question about maintanance was for me for later. I want to learn to do this right, because it is a lifetime committment for me.
Thanks again,
Martha

[oow-woo]

Just had to jump in here... a friend of mine from the Golden Years board directed me to this thread I am living, breathing proof that a hypothyroid (Hashimoto's thyroiditis), person may indeed not, I repeat NOT, lose well on 20 or less carbs/day. I know--I did it for 5 years and not only did I not lose, I gained! I never ate any sugar, or cheated (honest!!)--drank 100+ oz. water/day, ate no processed meats, no pork rinds (afraid of the sodium), no artificially sweetened drinks AND exercised. I ended up going from 155 lbs (starting wt.), up to 168 at one point (it was then I was dxgsd with Hashi's). I managed to get down to 157.8 by this past March but NOTHING (even Atkins '72 plan), helped. I had even used Ann Louise Gittleman's Fat Flush program which helped slightly.

I am now about 16 lbs down (142ish give or take a lb either way). So, how did I finally accomplish this huge feat?? I ADDED carbs (only the legal ones mind you). I have been following Lean for Life plan and really the only difference appears to be the allowable level of carbs and some 'cycling'.

Carol

[maybell]

This thread is very interesting
I am also Hypothyroid and I had no idea that raising carbs could be beneficial to weight loss for someone with thyroid disease.
All I know is that when I started eating more good carbs the weight I had been trying to lose for almost a year came off and I have been able to maintain at or near my goal weight for 5 months now.
I did Atkins '72 and lost weight the first week but then it came back on even at hardly any carbs!
I knew for me eating more carbs worked, what i didn't know was the thyroid connection. Now it all makes more sense!
Thanks!

[MammaC]

Carol and Maybell,
Just curious, how many carbs do you eat? Also, do you pay attention to calories? Martha

[oow-woo]

Martha- I really don't count calories as I follow the LFL plan (if it is followed properly, there is no real need to count calories), however I am guessing I get about 1200+/day. The fats are lower on this plan (I always suspected that my body did not do well with more fats when I was on strict Atkins). I would say my carb count is around 35-50/day (50 is a high guess!).

Carol

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

Glad to hear of your success Carol!

[pbptm]

I am also hypothyroid I keep my carbs around 25g net-45g net with lots of salad and veg. I can eat quite high fat but have to watch my cream intake on days I'm not at the gym.
I'm 45yrs, my thyroxine has been more or less under control for the last 2 years it does take a while for the body to adjust.
I've lost weight in fits and starts not from changing my eating pattern but mainly due to how much or how little excercise I have done in a week.
I eat according to my appetite on a given day.
I take a multy vit and cod liver oils each day.

[MammaC]

Thanks Carol

[nonstickpam107]

Well, I always want a "reason" for everything, or an explanation. The reasoning behind the carb count is this: Your body converts part of T4, the main thyroid hormone, into T3, the energy hormone. (For those that do NOT convert their T4, you will know from your FT3 blood labs....there is natural med combo, Armour thyroid, with both, or Thyrolar, a synthetic combo, or the addition of synthetic T3 Cytomel to your T4).

Dr. Broda Barnes, a famous thyroidologist, did scientific studies (as have others who came after him) to see how he could jog the metabolism of thyroid disease patients. He found that less conversion of T4 to T3 took place in those with hypothyroidism if one ate fewer than 50 GROSS grams of carb and/or fewer than 1300 calories for many days in a row. He also found that a diet rich in fat, and devoid of all flour, sugar, starches would help a thyroid patient lose weight. He also found that the patient who ate ONLY meat/fat would have some pretty bizarre nutritional disturbances.....a good cause for eating your lowcarb vegetables and fruits!!

Those with hypothyroidism should avoid certain foods, most of them in RAW form: walnuts, uncooked flaxseed, peanuts(and even roasted will slow thyroid), SOY, strawberries, cabbage family veggies, radishes. These are all goitrogens, with soy being perhaps one of the worse.

Dr. Ridha Arem also devotes several chapters in his books to the carb/calories deficient diet effect in thyroid disease patients. I totally agree with upping your NET carbs to 30-35, and to keep your fats at a good level.....and try to get a bit of slow, steady exercise. The aerobic exercise in a thyroid patient sometimes has a tendency to INCREASE cortisol...while the weight bearing exercises and things like Pilates, Yoga, tend to actually help the thyroid and metabolism.

Pam

[oow-woo]

Oh boy....Pam-- I've been eating ground flaxseed (adding it to my yogurt, protein drinks etc....). Are you telling me that I shouldn't be eating flaxseed?? Good grief--I love the stuff. Now, I've been buying the whole seeds and grinding them myself-- should I be roasting them first?? You're such a wealth of knowledge on this topic. Once again, I am stalled out--this time at 142 (a heck of a lot better than 158!). I also exercise pretty heartily on my Elliptical machine, as well as do weights and yoga stretching.

Carol

[Magicsmom]

Yikes, me too, Carol! I've been putting flaxmeal on my cottage cheese and love the stuff! And walnuts! That's gonna hurt to give those up!

I've never had what I would call a stall, but my weight loss seems to be on a bit of a plateau at the present. Nothing major - just the normal adjustments you go through in weight loss.

I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's about 15 years ago, BTW.

Thanks Pam!

Terry

[maybell]

MammaC: I find that I eat anywhere between 35 and 50 net carbs per day.
I do pay attention to calories mostly out of habit from years of dieting.
I probably average around 1600 per day.

Pam what you said in your post explains a lot to me. I dropped 20 pounds once I got my hormones straightened out and then actually got very stuck and even gained a little weight eating so much fat and protein with not enough carbs.
I couldn't lose those last 5 pounds until I upped my carbs and lowered my fat and protein.

I feel like I finally know what works for me now!!

[nonstickpam107]

Well now, flaxseed is like strawberries, and the goitrogenous veggies.....YMMV....I can eat raw cauliflower and brocolli with dip (but I wouldn't do it everyday), and strawberries (just a few, and again not everyday). If you don't feel achey, or symptomatic eating the flaxseed, then eat it....if you do, and your doc won't boost your meds to accomodate it...well, then I'd be hesitant, lol.

Oh, Carol, you are doing so well...how DARE you call THAT a stall after what you have been through!!! LOL To me it sounds like you have found the key to your success at losing weight...those last couple of pounds are probably just fluctuating water weight (don't we subtract those???? huh??).

Pam

[oow-woo]

Thanks Pam-- CarolynF and I started LFL back in March--she too has done really well and has made her goal.
I actually saw the Endo in August. He says I am 'clinically' hyper right now (because of my numbers) TSH.02 --he cut my cytomel back to 10/day (2 5mg/2x day) from 15/day. I'm concerned I might re-gain what I've lost....guess time will tell.

Carol

[inatic]

Arent the drs supposed to ignore the TSH if one is feeling well on the current dosage? .2 is barely hyper.

[glasnost]

I was stuck for the longest time, too. At 20 grams a day or less I wasn't going anywhere. After I read Pam's post about getting at least 30 grams a day, I recalled my periods of time on Atkins where I "cheated" by eating fruit and whole grains, and lost better than when I seemed to stick to meat and salad. Since learning this, I've been eating between 30 and 40 grams a day and the last of my weight FLEW off. (Yes, I met goal... finally!) I am not a diagnosed hypothyroid, though I am getting lab tests done very soon. After long suspecting it, this may be proof. All I can say, is THANK YOU Pam for the information. I feel like I am truly in control of my weight now. It frustrated me like none other that I was stalled and didn't have an explanation.

I have to say though, that almost all of those foods on the avoid list are foods that I eat... especially peanuts. >< I have felt sluggish after eating raw cauliflower before and soynut butter, so I am trying to cut those out. I haven't noticed much with the others.... I think....

[nonstickpam107]

Well, you are only "clinically hyper" if the clinician does the right tests....lol. What a guy, huh??? No, the TSH does NOT denote hyPER in that range in a person who is already medicated with T3.....do they know how to write "FT4, FT3" on the lab slip???

inatic, yes, you are correct....the TSH does NOT correlate once you are on T3 and you MUST have a FT3 count.....in order to know where you are. I would be alarmed if my endo gave ME T3 and did NOT then test me for levels. Scary stuff.

Pam

[nonstickpam107]

glasnost,

I'm so very glad you are doing well. Yeah, I eat a little raw brocolli and cauliflower/cabbage myself, and I started being able to feel the difference, too. We really get tuned in to what our bodies are telling us when we do lowcarb, don't we?

When I first found all the literature (Barnes, Arem) about how the hypothyroid doesn't like to convert if you starve it of carbs (under 30net), I had to stop reading all the postings on the boards here about "Oh, just go lower in calories, and under 20 or so carbs...oh, and do a fast, etc." I was amazed at the fact that after fasting for four days one time, over the course of the next week, I actually GAINED four pounds, while keeping calories at 1000 and carbs at 14!!! I found my reason for that by reading.

I think it's important for thyroid disease patients to stay calm, and realize that even if they can't take off the weight right now (many of us have to wait until we are optimally medicated and our bodies have healed from the lack of hormones), that we CAN instill healthier eating patterns by lowcarbing, and by learning our food choices are really going to count later on.

I'm so glad you have found what works for you.

Pam

[pbptm]

I eat cooked flaxmeal in muffins is this okay? it doesn't stall me. I don't eat peanuts I don't like them or soya. Cauliflower is a bit of a shock and strawberries. Where can I read this research?

[nonstickpam107]

Well, this 'research' goes back about 60 years, but I'm sure you can run a search for "thyroid and goitrogens" and pick some of it up, as well as go to the thyroid disease site at about.com.

Pam

[pbptm]

Just reread your post nonstickpam, my meds have not needed changing for the last 2 years I'm checked yearly, have been stabilised on 100mcg levothyroxine I'm in england so the health system is a bit hit and miss. My youngest dd takes 50mcg and eldest son takes 100mcg daily this is a family disease

[pbptm]

Thanks

[nonstickpam107]

So, you are telling me that you all have Hashimoto's autoimmune hypothyroidism? There IS T3 available in England, as well as Armour Thyroid.....if you look on the about.com thyroid disease site, the top docs list does have a few doc's over there that are really "up" on this disease and how to treat it with things other than just synthetic T4 if it's needed by the patient.

I really, really feel for you thyroid disease patients in England (and Canada).....and I know several personally in both countries that actually fly HERE twice a year, get their Rx's and go back!!

I do NOT convert my T4 to T3, so they could pump levothyroxine into me all day...it would make my TSH go down, but it would NEVER bring my T3 up at all...it just goes to reverse T3, which makes me even MORE pudgy, puffy, exhausted, sick. I wouldn't do well over there, to say the least. I see my endo every three months right now (my levels are changing, along with my female hormone levels...one changes the other, so both MUST be worked on)...once I get squared away a bit again, it will go back to every six months.

Pam

[cokermom]

Once again, Pam - thank you. I've been reading the about.com site for years, but this just proves that you have to be smart enough to actually know what to look for! I've never made the connection between types of food/amount of carbs and weight loss. Have you ever thought about offering your services to Mary Shoman to help make these things clear to readers of that site? I'm now wondering if the amount of carbs I'm eating (<20 per day) is the last piece of the puzzle as to why I'm not losing as I was? I've changed my meds - both type and timing - and have cut out other non-prescription supplements like L-Carnitine, and am just waiting on my body to "catch up"with my increased knowledge and "good sense"! More veggies - here I come! What about roasted almonds? Are they ok? Dry roasted peanuts?

Thank you.

[nonstickpam107]

You have a pm cokermom, lol.

I've been mainly a volunteer thyroid patient advocate, both here, and on a couple of other forums boards. Mary and quite a few others are writing books.....I don't write books, I volunteer my services to help others. Big difference, lol.

You might want to read Ridha Arem's books (The Thyroid Solution) and then perhaps a couple of Broda Barnes books, both are quite simple, straightforward and discuss the diet and conversion of T4 to T3.

Pam

[pbptm]

To be totally honest I really don't know my tests revealed antibodies against my thyroid .I take bp meds and a diuretic .
My ds has antidodies against thyroid and have rheumatoid arthrytis from age 10yrs. My dd has antibodies against her thyroid from age 5yrs when she stopped growing she has started growing again now she is on levothyroxine although all of her hair has fallen out. poor love I give her biotin a mulivit and cod liver oil daily a few hairs have grown over the summer but the doc says there is no guarantee they'll stay.