MUST you net carb and MUST your carbs be at least 20?

[3boys4me]

Another poster said that the Atkins Nutritionalist said this and I'm having a hard time finding it on this board.

While I asked that poster for clarification, she hasn't answered yet.

On the new Atkins WOE, MUST you net carb and MUST you have at least 20 carbs in induction?

I always assumed net carbing is an option and it's a max of 20 carbs on induction.

[Lisa Rae]

net carbs is optional..however..the problem IMHO lies in that when you don't deduct fiber from carb count on veggies for induction..you are going to get very few veggies. Veggies are where most of your carbs should be comming from on Induction. You really shouldn't be having products for induction..so I can see no reason not to deduct fiber from real foods.

YOu can have less then 20 carbs..but why? if you get 10-15 carbs by way of vegies..then add in your 4 oz of cheese or less..plus things like eggs, and salad dressing..you should be close to 20. Personally..I wouldn't go less then 15.. the great thing about low-carbing is you don't have to be starving and crabby.you can eat and lose

[3boys4me]

Yes Lisa, I agree with you (as usual) but on the other board someone said that the Atkins Nutritionalist said you MUST count net and you MUST eat over 20 carbs.

I want to clarify whether this point is so or not.

[Emily-D]

Yes, they said, "You should be consuming 20 grams of Net carbs in Induction, not below. It may vary on days within a gram or two but aim for 20 and not below. " It's in the thread called "Stalled Already."

I don't understand this either. In the DADR (1972) the carb count is very low. In the DANDR he talks about 15-20 grams in induction. Neither book mentions net carbs. Why is it important to have no less than 20 net carbs?

[cangirl]

I never counted the carbs during induction, I just measured my veggies according to the book and weighed my cheese and measured my cream etc. Never counted anything. Although now with this net carbing it will make it more confusing for people to follow because they will be eating more frankenfoods which is something I never did until month 5. I still find that the easiest thing for me is to just measure the allowable foods from the DANDR induction instructions.

[3boys4me]

Originally posted by emdo
Yes, they said, "You should be consuming 20 grams of Net carbs in Induction, not below. It may vary on days within a gram or two but aim for 20 and not below. " It's in the thread called "Stalled Already."

Yes, I read that last night. I don't understand it either.

If you do induction, following the acceptable foods list, there is NO WAY you can go over 20 TOTAL carbs. More than likely you'll be just under. Netting?? That's one heck of a lot of veggies!

I did not interpret DANDR 2002 that way, nor Atkins for Life. I read it as netting is an option and the MAX carbs for induction is 20...period.

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

The Atkins Nutritional Approach is based on science, and as the science evolves, so does the program.

There is so much more known about fiber now then when Dr. Atkins first developed this approach to eating. We now are aware that fiber is handled differently in the body than other carbohydrates so it is now subtracted from the total carbs, thus the guideline is that you should count Net Carbs.

Vegetables not only contain the most fiber out of all the foods you are including on this approach, but they are also the most nutrient dense foods and you want to be sure you are eating adequate amounts so that you are getting vitamins and minerals in the quantities your body needs to run properly. This is why you should be having no less than 20 grams of Net Carbs a day.

It is recommended that you take a multivitamin and also a fiber supplement for ‘insurance’, in order to be sure you are receiving adequate vitamins, minerals, and fiber from the whole foods you include in your meal planning. When you do count Net Carbs, you can be certain that you are meeting your requirements, but if you do not count Net Carbs, you probably are going to need that ‘insurance’ because you are very likely not meeting your vitamin, mineral, and fiber requirements.

There is science behind all the guidelines, they are not meant to be viewed as what ‘you must do’ in order to follow this approach, rather, they are guidelines for what you should do in order to be eating a healthy, well balanced carbohydrate controlled diet.

I hope I was able to clear up this confusion. Please let me know if you have further questions.

[3boys4me]

Originally posted by Atkins_Nutritionist

I hope I was able to clear up this confusion. Please let me know if you have further questions.

So does this mean the acceptable induction foods have changed to include more than 2 cups salad veggies and 1 cup other veggies?

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

The guidelines state that you should eat at least 3 cups of salad greens or 2 cups of salad greens and 1 cup of nonstarchy vegetables. However, depending on the other foods you're consuming, you may find that you are able to increase the amount of vegetables you can consume above what the guidelines state while still staying within 20 grams of Net Carbs.

[Emily-D]

Thanks for the clarification.

What is the recommendation for fiber intake?

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

You should aim to consume at least 25 grams of fiber each day.

[Emily-D]

Ok, thank you!

[Ben_1981]

Originally posted by Atkins_Nutritionist
You should aim to consume at least 25 grams of fiber each day.

Won't it take like 25 cups of lettuce to get that much fiber?

[Atkins_Nutritionist]

Lettuce should never be the only salad vegetable that you include in your meal planning. The guidelines state that you should eat at least 3 cups of salad greens, which includes:
alfalfa sprouts
daikon
mushrooms
arugula
endive
parsley
bok choy
escarole
peppers
celery
fennel
radicchio
chicory
jicama
radishes
chives
lettuce
romaine lettuce
cucumber
mâche
sorrel

or 2 cups of salad greens and 1 cup of nonstarchy vegetables which include:
artichoke
celery root
pumpkin
artichoke hearts
rhubarb
asparagus
chard
sauerkraut
bamboo shoots
collard greens
scallions
dandelion
snow peas
bean sprouts
dandelion greens
spaghetti squash
beet greens
eggplant
spinach
broccoli
hearts of palm
string or wax beans
broccoli rabe
kale
summer squash
brussels
kohlrabi
tomato
bean sprouts
leeks
turnips
cabbage
okra
water chestnuts
cauliflower
onion
zucchini

Here's some info from our website on how to choose your veggies so that you maximize your fiber intake:
http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-373638.html

[3boys4me]

Originally posted by Atkins_Nutritionist
state while still staying within 20 grams of Net Carbs.

When you say "within 20 grams of Net Carbs" it sounds like under 20 grams yet you say you should be having at LEAST 20 NET carbs.

This is a VERY fuzzy area and I'm sorry I keep questioning it.

To get at least 20 NET carbs that is a LOT of veggies. Most people have a hard time getting to 20 full carbs with the 2 cups salad veggies/1 cup other veggies.

Example....

b-2 eggs, 3 slice bacon

l-2 cup romain, quarter cup each of cucumber, mushrooms, brocolli and onion w/can tuna mixed with 1 tablspoon mayo.

d- chicken breast, 1 cup cauliflower w/3 oz colby cheese

I also threw in 3 tsp splenda just for the heck of it.

cals-1308, carbs-21, fiber 6

Are you including low carb products in the induction foods?

Can you post the list of acceptable foods for induction?

25 grams of fiber is extremely hard to get on veggies alone.

Can you post a sample menu to explain at least 20 net carbs and 25 grams fiber?

[Ben_1981]

Originally posted by 3boys4me
Example....

b-2 eggs, 3 slice bacon

l-2 cup romain, quarter cup each of cucumber, mushrooms, brocolli and onion w/can tuna mixed with 1 tablspoon mayo.

d- chicken breast, 1 cup cauliflower w/3 oz colby cheese

I also threw in 3 tsp splenda just for the heck of it.

cals-1308, carbs-21, fiber 6

Did you subtract the fiber from the veggies? It looks like it wouldn't even be 20 carbs.

[ahaire]

IMO "Atkins Nutritional" is just trying to make this diet seem more acceptable to the general public, so that they can sell more. I will stick to the older versions that Dr A actually endorsed. Just my opinion. But I don't see any reason to fix what is not broken...

[3boys4me]

Originally posted by Ben_1981
Did you subtract the fiber from the veggies? It looks like it wouldn't even be 20 carbs.

No I didn't. I used Fitday PC version.

[Kimmer]

Originally posted by 3boys4me
When you say "within 20 grams of Net Carbs" it sounds like under 20 grams yet you say you should be having at LEAST 20 NET carbs.

This is a VERY fuzzy area and I'm sorry I keep questioning it.

To get at least 20 NET carbs that is a LOT of veggies. Most people have a hard time getting to 20 full carbs with the 2 cups salad veggies/1 cup other veggies.

Fuzzy would be putting it mildly. My term would be contradictory.

A_N, this is the Induction menu selected and published by the Atkins organization in January 2003 magazines (only 18 months ago). I'm sure ANA had several meetings to decide on the perfect sample menu -- it's no where near 20 'net' carbs:

B - Tomato/avocado omelette, coffee w/ cream
L - Grilled chicken, mixed greens w/ dressing
D - Broiled salmon, spinach sauteed w/ garlic

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT "NEW" ATKINS.

This is "a" sample menu from E-Diets in conjunction with Atkins. I come up with about 7-8 carbs???:

B - Eggs (2), salsa (2 T), cheese (1 oz)
L - Roast chicken (4 oz), mixed greens (1 cup), dressing
D - Broiled steak (6 oz), mixed greens (1 cup), dressing
S - Broccoli florets raw (1 cup), tuna dip (2 oz)

[Kimmer]

Originally posted by 3boys4me
Another poster said that the Atkins Nutritionalist said this and I'm having a hard time finding it on this board.

While I asked that poster for clarification, she hasn't answered yet.

You can refer to me by name rather than indirectly. It makes it easier for others to locate specific posts.

I really do prefer the direct approach.

[3boys4me]

Originally posted by Kimmer
You can refer to me by name rather than indirectly. It makes it easier for others to locate specific posts.

I really do prefer the direct approach.

I never refer to anyone directly because half the time I don't remember who I'm quoting.......not trying to be indirect or otherwise, just the way I post.

[Kimmer]

Originally posted by 3boys4me
I never refer to anyone directly because half the time I don't remember who I'm quoting.......not trying to be indirect or otherwise, just the way I post.

Gotcha!

[randtbrown]

So now the rules say to have AT LEAST 2 cups of salad and 1 cup of veggies per day? When did that happen?

Tell you what, I'll stick to eating NO MORE THAN 20 REAL carbs per day. It works. Half the time I don't even eat that many, but I'm losing and I feel great.

The netting is just "fuzzy math" as our President would say.

[3boys4me]

Originally posted by randtbrown
So now the rules say to have AT LEAST 2 cups of salad and 1 cup of veggies per day? When did that happen?

In my book, DANDR 2002, it says 2-3 cups of salad veggies and 1 cup other veggies if your salad does not exceed 2 cups.

.....still don't know how to fit 25 gms fiber in there

[randtbrown]

I can't find my book! Does it say "at least" or "no more than"? Or does it get that detailed? I only ask b/c the Atkins_Nutritionist said AT LEAST. I always thought it was no more than. Gosh, at this rate I could eat my weight in salad. YEAH!

[3boys4me]

DANDR says...
"You can have 2-3 cups per day of:" salad vegetables
Then says....
"You can have one cup per day if salad does not exceed 2 cups..." of other vegetables.

Atkins nutritionalist says...
"However, depending on the other foods you're consuming, you may find that you are able to increase the amount of vegetables you can consume above what the guidelines state while still staying within 20 grams of Net Carbs."

And that in itself isn't the problem.........

[TigerSmoke]

2002 DANDR says no more that 20 net carbs.

If I had 25 grams of fiber a day there is no way I could drink enough water to get it all out.