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Old 11-05-2013, 05:32 PM   #91
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If you're following induction and counting both the carbs and the dairy (I don't remember if the newer Atkins limits dairy, I follow 2002 DANDR, which does), it's up to you.

I personally would not choose to have a sweet snack every day, though. Replacing bad habits with slightly less bad habits is still not ideal, IMO, but some people feel otherwise. If it helps keep you on plan for now, that may be your best option.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:41 AM   #92
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morning everyone..... good day today... did my 1 hour WA... and had a great breakfast... now cleaning my kitchen and will clean my two bathrooms when I get off the computer...

at 2 pm today.. going to do my walking DVD... I find that if I set a time to do this... I will do the DVD....

hope that everyone is doing well......
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:28 AM   #93
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morning everyone! i was hoping that one of the food trucks near my office today would be a barbeque truck, but no luck. oh well. I forgot to bring my lunch, and I don't want to pay $10 for lunch (unless it's bbq cause they give you a ton and it lasts for two days).
I've been wanting some wings lately -- that'll be dinner -- with Crystal hot sauce!
Speaking of hot sauce, which i LOVE, i have a bottle here which i believe to be one of the hottest made in the West- Blair's ultra death sauce. the first time i used it, i didn't read the very fine print, which says, "Ultra Death should not be consumed without dilution." YIKES!
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #94
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Dq: Man that stuff was hot I bet. Daves insanity sauce is pretty brutal also. To hot for me.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:59 PM   #95
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Hi Ntombi:
Thanks for that but there are no carbs or sugars in hwc?? There might be 1 or 2 in the Splenda but other than that??? I have a hard time with veggies. Actually hate them, except the ones that AREN'T on Induction so it's my only little break from eggs and meat. Oh well, if it's not a good idea then enough of that, I guess.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:08 PM   #96
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There are carbs in HWC, just few enough that they can get away with saying 0 on the label. There are 6.6g of carbs per cup of HWC. ALL dairy has carbs, period. They may have very few, but they all have them.

But my point is that exchanging one sweet snack for another (albeit on plan) isn't great in terms of habit-forming. If you're just having a snack to have a snack, I would try to limit it to a few times per week rather than nightly. That's just my unsolicited opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:11 PM   #97
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Hey, always appreciated. I think it's good advice. Once a week, maybe. Thank you!!
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #98
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Ntombi: Well said on the HWC. It can stall many people.

Bonny Jean: I avoid it like the plague. It is so easy to go over board with it quickly. I use to mix it with protein shakes before bed and it stalled me. So unfortunately i just avoid it all together. I have been on plan for 15 days straight without a smidgen of cheat. In that time I have lose over 15 pounds. I only eat all natural. It is not easy to avoid lots of foods I love, but the end result is worth it. Best of luck. Just keep trying things out and you will find a good replacement for what you crave.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:02 PM   #99
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a while back I would have SF Jello with cool whip (which I would freeze so it was like ice cream I love ice cream ) I do not do that anymore.... I have jello plain now...
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:18 AM   #100
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Thanks Kemp, Pawley.... new daily menu:

B: 1 coffee w/hwc
L: lettuce, onion, egg, ranch
D: meat, poultry or seafood (about 8-10 oz)
S: 1 coffee w/hwc

I can't choke down any more food than this but I fear I'm not eating enough. No more whipped cream treats! If I'm gonna pig out it will be with SF Jello.
7 wks 17 lbs.
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Old 11-07-2013, 03:38 PM   #101
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I'm here to stay on Induction. I lose extremely slow and if I move to next stage, I stall. I have to eat less than 5 carbs a day to lose anything. I am getting my heath back. Feel ALOT better and love the meals. What other diet can you have HWC, Butter, Bacon, and a good steak? None that I'm aware of. This has been so good for me, why would i stop?
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Old 11-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #102
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Welcome Margn:

Hey Guys, Been good this week so far. 4 days in and had 4 days at the gym. Taking tomorrow off before running again on Saturday. I have been on plan with zero cheats now for 16 days straight and have lost about 16 pounds. I was just going over my food journal and am averaging about 1700 calories a day with about 4 carbs total. I feel great and am loving life. I have a challenge this weekend. Going to the Aggie game, my family are all Aggies and have a huge tailgate. Go Johnny Football. So will be tough to not drink a beer. I know that there are low carb beers but I just want this weight off my fat butt. They believe bbq sauce goes on everything so I am bringing my own food. IF I can make it through this weekend, then next weekend I will reward myself with a few beers at the ranch. Well a few dozen. Will still need to keep up with my half marathon training no matter what. Glad everyone is doing well, lets keep up the good work.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:39 PM   #103
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Hi everyone,

I'm also on permanent induction. With all the reading I've done, I just don't see a need to increase the carbs much beyond 20g given the role they play in so many inflammatory and auto-immune diseases. I've also got thyroid problems which is dragging my weight loss on forever!!! But hey-ho, am still sticking in here.

Kemp, if you want to read some bits about exercise and weight, the best books I can recommend are Diet Delusion and Good Calories, Bad Calories - both by Gary Taubes. In both, he goes into great detail of what numerous scientific studies found when they tried to prove that exercise results in weight loss - in general, they found the opposite, it tended to increase weight. His books also cover so much more (like the cholesterol scam, Keyes and lots of other stuff) they really are worth reading (though you really only need one as they do pretty much cover the same stuff).

Exercise has its place for making the heart fit and strong and for sculpting your shape, but not for actually making you lose weight. I wish I'd known that years ago when I used to spend 4hrs a day in the spin studio...

Anyone else read Grain Brain? The link between carbs and alzheimers is truly scary. It further backed up my plan to stay on ultra low carb for life!

Glad to see I'm not the only one on permanent induction! Look forward to hearing lots of great ideas from everyone!

Mmmmm stop saying the word brisket Kemp, I am out of steak and can literally taste your brisket from here!!! I might turn up at your door soon to claim some :-) think of a zombie, arms outstretched, walking, saying, brisket, brisket, brisket
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:24 PM   #104
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kemp - good job doing your gym for four days... and dropping 16 pounds...and good luck this weekend..you can do it....

Margn - glad to have you aboard.

tiggy - you will get a lot of support here...

well, I did my early morning WA and then this evening I did the Zumba water class.... and now boy I am tired and ready to go to bed.... but it is a good tired.. just hope that I will be down tomorrow when I step on the scale..
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:25 PM   #105
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Tiggy: I will keep a brisket warm for you. May be a heck of a trip from London!!! LOL

As far as exercise goes I have heard this before. But for me if I do not work out I barely lose anything. Even If I eat only 1200 or less calories a day and 5 or less carbs a day. For me and anyone else I would rather eat 1700 plus calories a day, still 5 or less carbs and lose a pound of fat a day. Not muscle fat. I do not do the float body mass test but I do a pretty high tech test that says I do not lose muscle when doing this diet this way. I actually gained muscle in both legs and both arms last time I did this WOE.

If you can just lose a pound a day sitting on the couch and eating please let me know what to eat??? LOL I would still work out because I like it. Maybe the scientist should come test me!!! LOL

I do appreciate any other advice as far as working out and will look at those books. You are the second person to bring it up. And thanks for the actual books with the information.

Pawleys:Way to go on the workouts. That will make the scale move, I think?
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:27 AM   #106
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Keep it warm Kemp, definitely, am on my way!

I too love the gym so completely understand. I did a set of HiiT training last night and two programmes on the powerplate. Tonight is chest and back finished with some powerplate and possibly a swim. The weekend holds great excitement with shoulders, bi's and tri's and possibly legs, and I really hate leg days...

Unfortunately, gone are my long intense cardio sessions as my knees, hips, feet and back are fubar-ed. I attempted my last 26mi charity walk in May this year when I had to stop at 14mi because of my stupid feet. I also had achilles surgery in Sept.

If you want to shake things up a bit at the gym, have a look at Mercola and read the bits about peak fitness, HiiT, and super-slow weight training. I try to stick to the last two training methods as they cause the least inflammation and yet provide great benefits.

Another book which covered the exercise conumdrum slightly was the Barry Groves book. I don't think its as good as Taubes as he presents loads more studies and is more technical.

Look forward to hear what you think of the science behind it. Are you sure you are not eating too little? 1800 cals plus the gym is pretty much what I was doing at the top of my gym career and I too training with my heart rate monitor till I burned 1000 of those. It lead to the destruction of my thyroid and adrenals not to mention the injuries. I would have thought you would need to be closer to 3000 cals given your training needs with 80% of that from fats?
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:18 AM   #107
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Tiggy: I very well could be doing all this wrong and not eating enough. I have got plenty of fat to burn. It is hard enough for me to eat 1800 calories a day. I just am not hungry. I definitely do not want any of those problems you are having. In my mind, and could be wrong easily, is that if i am in ketosis and then I am burning up my body's fat stores. I provide it no other fuel except my own fat?? According to atkins the only fuel I am burning is fat stores when I work out or do anything. Even tie my shoes. Is he just plain wrong and this diet is a farce in that regard? If I eat only 1800 calories a day burn a thousand in the gym the only thing left is my body fat, and honestly I have about 70 more pounds of that to burn off.

Honestly as you can tell I am very dedicated dieter, having extreme trouble being a dedicated maintenance dieter. I am awesome at weight loss and terrible at keeping it off. You sound extremely educated on the subject and you will not hurt my feelings in anyway. Please advise.

Also are any of the studies related to low carb dieting??? Or just the standard low fat?
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:50 AM   #108
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Hi Kemp, I hear you! I'm sure you are in ketosis and yep, you will be burning fat - whether exercising, or just thinking about exercising. Atkins never actually prescribed intense exercise - only walking then upping that a bit. There are plenty of low carb studies all of which say its the only beneficial way to eat and how low fat will actually give you diabetes, heart disease and dementia!

I think from what I remember reading, there are two issues.

One, is that exercise creates inflammation, whether that be from building muscle fibre or from intense cardio. Both remove glycogen from the muscle - but the damage to muscles also creates a need to replace that lost glycogen, which is sometimes how protein can be turned into glycogen as there is a need to replace it for muscle repair.

Two, too much of anything without enough food will slow down fat loss as the body will hang onto calories longer.

Have you ever tested your BMR (your metabolic rate)? That is just your body's minimum needs for breathing etc. I have no doubt your BMR will be above 1800cals, mine is about 1700 roughly. So given that, you still need to eat in order to function properly.

Remember, the old addage of calories in, calories out, is a complete farce. A calorie is mot a calorie, nor is what your body does with them straightforward. You can eat a whole large block of cheese when you put it on toast, melted with some nice butter. But just try and eat that whole block of cheese without the toast - your stomach will get to the fat satiety point and tell you to bugger off and give you that nausea sensation. I've tried it - but with butter, and butter mixed with sugar. Guess which one you can't eat much of! And sometimes your body is craving that whole block of cheese, there is just no point giving it the added carbs to go with it since it really only wants the cheese. Plus, carbs over-write your natural happy point. Sp with real food like fat and protein, you will only eat how much you need.

It might be worth adding in an avocado (if you can stomach them), as much coconut oil as you can eat and some grass-fed organic butter. You might find that actually improves your gym performance and gets the scales tipping even faster. Don't forget, you could also have thyroid issues which can also affect you. Oh, and forgot, make sure you increase your salt uptake with low carb (preferrably himalayan) as your kidneys require more than when you are on carbs.

I've read quite a bit and happy to share what I can remember! I really think you will like Taubes books. Also good is the Eat Fat, Get Thin one by Groves, The Fat Switch, Fat Chance, and Sugar, Fat, Salt by Michael Moss. Oh, and Grain Brain which I'm reading now!

Please anyone else with more knowledge comment! I read these books and by the time I'm half way through the next, I've forgotten the previous one so I could be mixing everything up!

But if I do find a relevent chapter/paragraph will post it.

I'm sure between us all here, we wil reach our goal plus stay there!
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by kempmuhlbauer View Post
Welcome Margn:

Hey Guys, Been good this week so far. 4 days in and had 4 days at the gym. Taking tomorrow off before running again on Saturday. I have been on plan with zero cheats now for 16 days straight and have lost about 16 pounds. I was just going over my food journal and am averaging about 1700 calories a day with about 4 carbs total. I feel great and am loving life. I have a challenge this weekend. Going to the Aggie game, my family are all Aggies and have a huge tailgate. Go Johnny Football. So will be tough to not drink a beer. I know that there are low carb beers but I just want this weight off my fat butt. They believe bbq sauce goes on everything so I am bringing my own food. IF I can make it through this weekend, then next weekend I will reward myself with a few beers at the ranch. Well a few dozen. Will still need to keep up with my half marathon training no matter what. Glad everyone is doing well, lets keep up the good work.
Kemp:

Have you ever tried Walden Farms BBQ Sause? They make the original and Spicy. 0 cal 0 carbs 0 sugar. BOTH have AWESOME flavor.
You should check them out. I do not like the salad dressings, they are bad, but the BBQ is good.

Last edited by margn; 11-08-2013 at 07:10 AM..
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #110
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Sorry Kemp,
Just remembered two more books which you will probaly find essential:

The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Volek and Phinney

And their book, the Art and Science of Low Carb Performance which is all about fitness and low carbing.

I think you will find these ones particularly good. I got mine from Amazon from the used section for around $20 together. And even Dr Atkins has a guest chapter in the first book.

Oh, and if never read it, Dr Atkins wrote an amazing book on natural health remedies all about vitamins and minerals - this book is really amazing.

I really must stop reading... :-) have a great day!!!
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:14 AM   #111
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Tiggy: That sounds great. Are fat bombs a good thing. they have a ton of coconut oil I believe. I will switch to using coconut oil to cook my eggs and any other time I need oil. I have a ton of it. The Wife uses it on her eating plan. Upping salt is a no brainer. Never been a salt guy unless on popcorn.....which is a non starter!!!LOL I rarely add salt but always pepper. I am not having trouble losing per say at the moment but losses are slowing now. I accredit that to weight training and muscle building. I am not so much worried about the scale as I am worried about the fat coming off. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to explain this to me.

Does my doctor test BMR?

And I love avocado with some pepper and salt straight out of the skin with a spoon. So can add that. With extra dash of salt. I just try and keep my carb count low. But going to add that avocado in Monday and see if that helps. I do not want to hurt any of my organs.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:18 AM   #112
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Tiggy: you read a lot of books, will order some of these books today. Thanks again so much for your advice and help

Margan: Will check it out. I usually do not use anything processed except cheese and organic butter. I try and stay all natural and use different woods to flavored my meats. But at some point that is going to get old and once the weight is down in the maintenance range will have to try some of the products just to keep me sane!!! LOL
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:23 AM   #113
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Tiggy: you read a lot of books, will order some of these books today. Thanks again so much for your advice and help

Margan: Will check it out. I usually do not use anything processed except cheese and organic butter. I try and stay all natural and use different woods to flavored my meats. But at some point that is going to get old and once the weight is down in the maintenance range will have to try some of the products just to keep me sane!!! LOL
I totally understand. I only buy orgainc and try to eat as clean as I can. I do however enjoy a good BBQ, and since most are made with sugar (which I'm allergic to) I found Walden Farms. It is a nice BBQ Sauce that gives the flavor I craved and 0 Cals 0 Carbs, 0 Sugar. I prefer the Spicy one, but both are good. I can have a bit of it with my steak instead of the BAD steak sauce I ate before. Just wanted to share.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:31 AM   #114
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Tiggy: That sounds great. Are fat bombs a good thing. they have a ton of coconut oil I believe. I will switch to using coconut oil to cook my eggs and any other time I need oil. I have a ton of it. The Wife uses it on her eating plan. Upping salt is a no brainer. Never been a salt guy unless on popcorn.....which is a non starter!!!LOL I rarely add salt but always pepper. I am not having trouble losing per say at the moment but losses are slowing now. I accredit that to weight training and muscle building. I am not so much worried about the scale as I am worried about the fat coming off. I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to explain this to me.

Does my doctor test BMR?

And I love avocado with some pepper and salt straight out of the skin with a spoon. So can add that. With extra dash of salt. I just try and keep my carb count low. But going to add that avocado in Monday and see if that helps. I do not want to hurt any of my organs.
Kemp:

Fat Bombs are Awesome, but keep in mind, most have chocolate or PB, which is what helped me to stall. I loved the nice bit of chocolate , PB ,coconut oil, and butter mixed up. BUT, they didn't hlep with the scale dropping. I won't try them again until I'm closer to goal.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:39 AM   #115
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They did not seem to stall last time. But will be wary. I do like them and it is a good way to get some fat. Will keep you posted.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:15 AM   #116
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I very rarely eat fat bombs, but I do keep them in the freezer for emergencies. My favorite is lemon, which just has butter, coconut oil, lemon juice and rind, and liquid Splenda.

There are all different types, many without nuts or chocolate.

When I'm allowed to exercise, I do high intensity weight training (high weights, low reps) only, no cardio. I love it, and it does a really good job at working my body and transforming it for the better. It's also healthy, it gives you the benefits of cardio without the downsides. Plus, the higher your LBM, the higher your metabolism.

I have my next body fat analysis set for next week. I'll let y'all know the results. As always, my goal is to lose fat without losing LBM, and I'm still restricted from exercise, so it has to be only through diet.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:27 AM   #117
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Stats: 84.6kg/76.8kg/60kg
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: 3 March 2013
Mmmmm, I love fat bombs! That is so true Margn, but if you search the boards here, there were some amazing ones without cocoa powder, I think they call them blondie bombs? Butter, coconut oil, sometimes sour cream, lemon or vanilla - see, my memory is shot as I should know where I wrote these down! I will see if I can find the recipes and put the link to the posts. I make mine with a small amount of 90% cocoa powder, coconut oil, dessicated coconut, toasted coconut shavings, himalayan salt and stevia. Tastes like a Bounty!

I found a BMR calculator that is generalised on ************. Usually you go to a centre and they put you in a pod and measure you oxygen output and other bits. But I reckon you could use the online tools to get a free estimate which would be good enough for now. I checked mine on it and it said I burn 1438cals just functioning, this doesn't include moving about which makes me think that Kemp, you need more food in you :-) esp with all your training.

You guys have the best stuff - we don't have any of the cool sf products here. Someone said they were making root beer floats - I've been searching for diet root beer ever since! I stocked up on some of the sf salad dressings I read about recently on a trip over, even brought back cans of Rotel to make some of the recipes from the food porn thread!

Oh, and forgot the amazing book, Why We Get Fat by Taubes - am pretty sure this is the one where he goes into detail about exercise. My friend has it at the moment so can't look it up for you.

And something else of interest, intermittent fasting - not the 5/2 but like many people on here do, restricting all eating to 4-6hrs during the day. I think Mercola discusses this as well. Basically, I start with lunch about 1pm and then finish all snacks and dinner by 7pm. It puts your body into a fasting state for 18hrs which is very beneficial for blood sugar as well as mental function. Plus with low carb, you are already less hungry so it kind of fits nicely.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:55 AM   #118
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Location: Pawleys Island, SC
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Stats: 305/277.8/175
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: restarting August 11, 2013
finally after a five day stall... down 1.1 pounds

and this is after I had my great meal last evening at Longhorn's.. steak and lobster....
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Old 11-10-2013, 11:50 AM   #119
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WOE: Super low carb
Start Date: 11/03/14
Pawley Way to go. Awesome job. Bet the lobster was awesome.

Tiggy: I used the online things to do BMR. If I enter 6 days a week of vigirous exercise it says I am at 3700 calories a day. I like that. So if I stick to a 1800 calorie a day diet then I should be about negative 1900 calories a day. That means if I am lucky I can expect to have a negative 1900 calories a day. With that it would equal about -13300 calories over 7 days a week equals about 4 pounds a week in weight loss. I can live with that. Thanks for the info. If i were to eat 3000 calories a day then I would be lucky to lose a pound a week. Am I reading into this correctly???
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:37 AM   #120
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Posts: 161
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Stats: 84.6kg/76.8kg/60kg
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: 3 March 2013
Hi Kemp,
From what I remember reading, no - you will start processing protein as glycogen to fill in what you are not eating. The BMR is what you need to keep your brain working, breathing, digesting, blood circulating.

You are basically eating 50% of what your body needs and that is before you start doing any training! You could be slowing down weightloss because your body will signal starvation or you could potentially be losing muscle mass esp with training for distance running, its naturally canabalistic.

You need to be eating more fat to encourage your body to use that (your stored fat) up in your training so it doesn't go looking around for something to burn up (like your brisket). Its worth giving it a try? I know I would be starving if I was limited to 1900 cals a day! I'm eating about 1200 cals in fat alone before adding in my greens and protein. Yesterday, had a big training day, and ate about 4,500 cals with lots of coconut oil, butter and fatty meat with spinach and lettuce - was 1kg down this morning.

I don't think you should be too worried about controlling your intake so tightly - keep the fat up there with everything you are already doing, and think you will probably see even better results :-)

Paws, congratulations!!! Mmmm, trust some steak and lobster to bring on a loss :-)
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