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Old 10-26-2013, 03:03 PM   #31
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From most of my research if you overconsume protein, it will become similar to overdoing carbs and be stored as fat on the body, and throw you out of ketosis. So if you keep your protein at a moderate level and fat at least 1.5x higher, you stay in ketosis and burn more fat from the body.

However, and this is where it gets confusing for me, I have run across at least three people who are doing as you are and their protein is usually 1.5x or more higher than fat intake with the low carbs and they are losing at times 8 lbs a week or more.

One guy in particular that I am watching has been averaging fat intake around 15g a day and protein around 75g with the very low carbs and has had extraordinary weight loss. In a period of 3.5 months he has lost over 100lbs. His protein is coming from mostly whey protein isolate shakes and one protein meal a day. I don't see this as a sustainable long-term eating plan, but it is interesting to me for fast weight loss.

Last edited by mjgh06; 10-26-2013 at 03:07 PM..
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:13 PM   #32
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My protein is about 120g per day. I keep it at that number to nourish my lean body mass, and ensure that I won't lose muscle as I lose excess fat. I also get a hydrostatic body fat test every four months to keep track of my progress. The amount of protein one needs is individual, and dependent on many factors, including age, musculature, genetics, activity level, and metabolism. For you, 75g of protein may be too much, but for me, it would be way too little. For most adult men, I would bet it's not enough. Honestly, what you described of his diet--15g of fat, 75g of protein, very low carbs, sounds like he's eating under 600 calories per day, which is dangerous, and shouldn't be undertaken without a doctor.

I eat fewer than 20g total carbs per day. As to what I eat, I eat meat, eggs, dairy, non-starchy veggies, and healthy fats. Due to many food allergies, I can't eat salad or nuts, but most people on ketogenic diets eat those as well. I don't get tired of my food. I cook well, and I enjoy my food. I also eat out on a regular basis.

I don't have menus, but I eat a variety of meats (including seafood), cooked many different ways, I eat a variety of non-starchy veggies, like spinach, cabbage, kale, broccoli, string beans, Brussels sprouts, and many more, cooked all kinds of ways. I eat dairy, like butter, cheese, and cream. I mostly cook with bacon fat (much healthier than its rep) or rendered pork fat, coconut oil, and some olive oil.

I cook in the crockpot fairly often, braising things like pork shoulders with lots of spices and some veggies. I love roasted chicken, steak, pork shoulder, and seafood, so I eat them often, with various veggies.

I try to keep homemade coleslaw in the fridge for a quick grab. If I'm really organized, I'll have boiled eggs and tuna salad in there too, though that's more of a crapshoot. I keep shredded cabbage in the fridge so I can throw a handful in with some sautéing meat, or a stir fry, which I make often. I love a quick stir fry.

I roast veggies often. All kinds, tossed with a little salt and olive oil, they're delicious and have a natural sweetness. There are few veggies I don't like, so I experiment a lot, but my staple veggies are definitely cabbage, greens (spinach, kale, collards), and broccoli. I use the veggies that are slightly higher in carbs, like peppers (hot and sweet), onions, and tomatoes, like seasonings, rather than foundation veggies. Luckily for me, they have strong flavors, so you can add a lot to a dish with a small amount.

I keep burger patties in the freezer (I buy the family packs of ground beef and separate them into patties), so I can make a burger, or use the meat in a quick pan meal with string beans or peppers or whatever. For chicken, I prefer the bone-in breasts and drumsticks to the whole bird, so I buy the big packs and freeze them in serving sizes. That way, I can cook them one at a time, or in a bunch. If I'm doing a stir fry, I'll debone and skin the breast and out the rest aside for a broth.

Like I said, I eat out fairly often, everywhere from fast food to fine dining. I can always find some way to stay on plan and eat delicious food.

I'm not big on making a lot of the LC recipes floating around, especially those that try to emulate high carb foods. Nothing against them, I just mostly don't eat that way, but I love pizza, and I have a yen every so often. I actually don't really like most of the pizza near where I live (I'm an east coast pizza snob living in SoCal), so it wouldn't be worth it for me to eat off plan for subpar pizza. I make a cheese crust pizza that's delicious, and much better than most of the pizzas in my neighborhood! It is completely on plan, and not crazy with the calories either, so it's a nice treat every so often.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:41 PM   #33
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Oh ntombi, I totally agree with you about the amount of protein one needs is dependent upon the individual. and pizza is my downfall but I also found a cheese crust recipe for pizza from LS and it is so much better than anything I have had elsewhere. I absolutely was ecstatic that I could have my pizza on plan.

I use a ketosis calculator. As I am sedentary my protein should stay 65-70g a day. My carbs average under 10net a day mostly because there are so many veggies I avoid do to health issues, and I am just not a veggie person. I think there's no plan that is perfect for everyone and we really have to work at seeing what works for our bodies in a healthy way.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:03 PM   #34
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Mjgh06: I need that pizza recipe please!!!! What do you use for sauce to keep it low carb? I understand about ketosis and protein that is why I check it every morning and when I stay on plan I stay in ketosis. I am very active when on plan and work out a 4-6 days a week, so that may help with the extra protein.

Ntombi: I agree with what you are saying. I do eat quite a bit more protein for that exact reason, do not want to lose any muscle mass at all.

I have great success when doing this plan for weight loss. I have not however figured out how to go long term?!?!?!?. I can lose 70 pounds in 60 days. I like to average a pound a day. I do have lots of choices and I am a accomplished cook, not a chef. I am about to smoke a brisket for the week which will take well over 14 hours. But after 30 days of hardcore dieting I get the cravings, after 60 it is not that I crave the food, it is that I remember how good they taste!!! LOL I definitely have a food addiction and am trying this time to address that issue while losing the weight to actually make a life change. I feel horrible when after eating a sugary treat. Which leads to more eating of bad thing. It is my cross to bear but the positive thing is I keep trying and the time I am thinner and working out like crazy means I am healthier more then I am fat and overweight.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #35
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A pound a day? I don't think that it's possible to lose that much fat that fast, whereas muscle can definitely be lost that quickly. Are you testing your body composition at all? I would be worried.

For the cheese crust pizza, I use
1 egg
1 cup of shredded cheese (I use a mix of mozzarella, parmesan, and cheddar)
Italian seasoning
garlic powder

Mix well, and pat it out flat on a greased pan, or a silpat. Bake at 450* until slightly brown on the edges, flip carefully, and bake again until brown.

For the tomato sauce, I like Trader Joe's three cheese pomodoro pasta sauce, which is delicious and has 6g of carbs per half a cup. I use a few tablespoons max, so it's a good LC choice.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:24 PM   #36
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kemp - wow - if you and your wife are ever in my area... we will have to go to Nances and get seafood..... I mean it.... that would be great...
your breakfasts sound like mine - it is my favorite meal... eggs and bacon or sometimes sausage... and I love chicken wings with parm. cheese ... I would love to do the 3 - 5 carbs a day, but I have to be careful being a diabetic... my blood sugar can drop quickly... but I am doing well dropped 30 pounds since Aug 11th... and dropped one dress size plus you men tend to lose more quickly.. my son had dropped over 80 pounds in about 4 months on the South Beach diet..... but it is great you losing one pound a day

ntombi - love.love your ideas of eating... I try to eat like that..... and I would also love your pizza recipe.....I also love any kind of veggies.....

mjgh06 - I agree that we just have to find the right plan for ourselves...I had done WW - but on that I would tend to eat fruit and the higher carb veggies... and would end up gaining and my B/S will be high... this program is so much better.... even though one of my BFF's thinks that WW is the only diet one should use but of my three friends who are on WW - I have dropped the most weight and inches on this WOE plan.... - tho I have not said that to them... but I sure would love to... I just hope to lose more weight and have my blood sugar go down.... and show them that you just have to find the best plan for yourself....
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:30 PM   #37
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ntombi - must of posted at same time... thanks for the pizza crust recipe... we have a Traders Joes in Mt. Pleasant about one hour away... and my BFF's and I am planning a trip to TJ's - never have been in one... so that sauce will be on my list.. thanks....
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:33 PM   #38
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I tweaked the recipe I got from this thread: Thin & Crispy Pizza Crust! Easiest EVER! Pics included!

A LOT of good info and tweak ideas here.


ETA: I forgot to mention that I don't go through a lot of the tomato sauce, so when I get a jar, I separate it into several sandwich baggies and then freeze it. Then I can defrost one at a time to add to a dish.

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Old 10-26-2013, 06:32 PM   #39
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I am in Vegas until the end of the year . I will be on a plane Dec. 27th and I know that whatever I have accomplished out here in weight loss has to carry with me home but one thing I do is make meals taste good and varied.
I love seafood, good herb crusted roast or rotisserie chicken especially. Here and there I'll also enjoy omelettes and red meat. The only thing I don't use is cream because I'm not a coffee drinker though I used to enjoy milk in my Iced tea and could probably enjoy that in my tea drinks.
I vary my veggies from steamed to roasted. If I were home I would enjoy roasted veggies with garlic, fresh herbs and a splash of lemon.
I think that everyone has a favorite low carb food and fresh roasted turkey is up there with lobster on my favorites list.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:39 AM   #40
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Ntmobi: I do not do body composition testing that I know of, however I work out a lot while dieting. To build lean muscle mass and improve cardiovascular. I am training for a 1/2 marathon starting Monday through end of January. I do however and this may be body composition testing,(do not know if it is a doctor acceptable machine) use a very high tech machine at the gym which test for body fat and lean muscle mass in each limb and chest area and last time I did this diet I actually gained muscle. This machine is basically a scale with attachments and sensors that they put on your body to measure body fat, muscle mass etc in each limb and chest, looks pretty high tech to me, is that a body composition machine also? If it is great then eating a ton of protein and working out let me know that I am not losing any muscle mass just body fat. PLease let me know where else I would need to go to get a body composition test?

Oh and thanks for the pizza crust recipe.

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Old 10-27-2013, 05:47 AM   #41
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Pawleys:When back out that way will let you know for sure. And losing 30 pounds is and awesome feat. A very awesome feat. Men do lose quicker that is for sure, plus I am super OCD when it comes to doing this WOE so I bust my hump in the gym which makes the weight just fall off. Plus only eating a few carbs a day only gives my body my own fat to burn. I have a brisket on the smoker right now and what do you know it started raining!!!! No worries just grabbed a table umbrella and covered up the smoker. Been smoking for 9 hours so far going to let it go for about 15 total so it is extra moist. And no I did not trim any of that tasty delicious fat off at all!!!!! Cannot wait to eat some of that top side fatty brisket.
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Old 10-27-2013, 06:27 AM   #42
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To Kemp

Hi and thanks for the reply. Our diets seems similar although someone told me that my calorie count might be too low. I don't feel hungry but fear I might be sabotoging my own efforts.

B: 2 strips bacon, 2 sausage, 2 egg and 1 coffee, cream, Splenda
L: 1 c. greens, 2 tbsp Ranch ( I have veggies)
D: 4 -5 back ribs or 1/2 pork steak or wings
10-12 cups of water with MIO.

That's it. I'm not hungry so???
I noticed some of your meat is very lean. Aren't we to have more fat than protein? Mind you, you're working out and I'm not. I have a 15 lb loss in 6 wks but each week is getting less and less.
Although I'm proportionally fat LOL, I only seem to losing on my hips?? Very strange progress this time, I must say.
Bottom line is I don't understand how not to pay attention to calories. It's scientifically proven that calories DO matter!! Energy in - energy out is the only way to lose and that's based on calorie intake and calorie burn NO MATTER WHAT DIET YOU'RE ON............ CORRECT????
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:49 AM   #43
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Bonny jean: I eat a lot of fat about 90-120 grams a day. I do eat the skin on my chicken and I only eat dark meat. I usually eat a fatty rib eye steak every few days also. I would not call myself a lean cut kinda of guy. I search for the fattiest steaks. Sorry if that came across like that. I force myself to eat if you can believe that. I have not had any hunger yet this morning so I forced down a boiled egg and a few pieces of bacon.

I am a big believer in calories in to calories out, I mean a huge believer. If I eat 1800 calories in the day I want to off set that with at least a 1000 calorie burn in the gym, which is no easy task. I will sometimes even eat 2200 calories a day by upping fat intake and still hit the gym for a large calorie burn. When in ketosis however your body burns more calories than when not in ketosis for doing the same task. So the theory of calories in calories out is correct that is why we lose more weight than people doing other diets. Calories do matter you are very correct about that but we are burning at a higher rate hence the weight loss.

If you do not move around a lot then you will not lose a lot. And our bodies do plateau. I always plateau at around the 235 mark and at 226 mark. Atkins says a plateau is when you do not lose weight for like 6 weeks, I think that is absolutely ridiculousness!!! LOL
If I do not lose for 5 days straight I kinda go crazy. I use to do like 800 calories a day for a few days and do 1500 calorie burns in the gym to break the stall. Mathematically that has to work right???? Well amazingly it does not always. So now I just keep doing the things and then all of a sudden your body will catch up with your efforts. I have stalled for 14 days straight and then all of a sudden whoosh I will lose 8 pounds in 3 days. It sucks to stall but your body does as it pleases in this regard. That is why I try and get off as much as i can as fast as I can before my body realizes it is losing. Sounds crazy I know but that is the way my crazy brain works.

But not eating enough is not good. Your body in starvation mode is not a good thing. Do a little research about starvation mode and you will learn a lot about calories in to calories out. Like I said before if I do low calorie for weeks at a time I will not lose very much, but keeping my calories up around the 1800 mark even higher and working out I lose faster and more steadily.

From our menu it does not look like you are eating enough considering you weight.

I also abstain from any fake sugars and caffeine. I only drink water and that is it. Just FYI.

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Old 10-27-2013, 07:51 AM   #44
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Bonny jean: I also supplement with a multi vitamin made for low carb dieters and omega threes etc. That also seems to help.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:07 AM   #45
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KEMP

Sorry, didn't mean to imply all the meat was lean. I just read one your posts that mentioned tenderloin and when I saw that (squirrel) I just was a little surprised as it's one the leanest cuts you can get. It kind of distracted me from everything else. LOL. I certainly am not going to argue or even question somebody that has obviously got this figured out. You know what you're doing and you have the numbers to prove it so disregard that comment. So why wouldn't I be losing more even if my intake is low. I understand the "starvation" mode thing but have you ever seen a fat anorexic??? (No offence) I really seem to be having a big problem with getting my fat to be higher than my protein.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:22 AM   #46
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It is a lean cut but I love the flavor, I do make a Tabasco mayo that i dip it in and I eat a lot of that each time. No worries you will never offend me unless you talk about my Cowboys or my Aggies LOL. Never fear I an not easily offended. I do not know why your are not losing at a quicker pace. The major difference is the exercise. Most people hate to hear that but it is really the key to success in my mind. just stay low carb and up your movement. not matter what it is, even if it is walking stairs, or parking at the farthest spot etc. I do not just hop on the stair stepper at level 10 for 1.5 hours I start with 20 minutes on level 2-3 and work my way up. You can do this and the weight will start to come off.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:58 AM   #47
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Calories in, calories out is not really a proven theory. Our bodies are not machines, not to mention all calories are not created equal. Scientists still estimate what a calorie even is. So no, I'm not at all a believer in calories in, calories out, or exercising "away" a certain number, especially not relying on the exercise machines or an app for those "you've burned..." numbers, those are even more of a gross estimate!

Also, studies have shown over and over again that exercise does NOT speed up weight loss. It's healthy for many other reasons, but it cannot be relied on to speed up your rate of fat loss or to break a stall. It seems logical, so people believe it, but is no evidence of it whatsoever, and every study that has tried to prove a connection has failed to do so.

As for a stall being six weeks without weight or inches lost, I'm absolutely in that camp. I have had periods of close to THREE MONTHS during which I've lost maybe two pounds, but have lost enough inches to go down close to two sizes. That's not a stall, and I didn't change anything at all in how I ate. Eventually, the scale started showing losses again. But most importantly, I was losing fat that whole time, I just happened to be retaining water at the same time, which was why I was losing inches but not scale weight.

As for body composition, what you described is a form of body analysis, called bio-electrical impedance analysis (BIA), the same method used in body fat scales. It's moderately reliable, but you have to be very well hydrated for it to be at its best, and even then, it has a fairly high margin of error. The method I use is the hydrostatic, or dunk test, which is much more accurate; it and the DEXA scan are more accurate by far. I'll tell you that I used to use a BIA scale, and extol its virtues, because it coincided with the caliper testing I'd gotten at the same time, but both calipers and BIA are not that reliable, and I realized how far off they were in my case once I started getting tested hydrostatically. The calipers and BIA were off by more than 15%! That's huge, and make a very large difference in not only setting my ultimate goal weight, but also the amount of protein I should be eating to retain my LBM.

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Old 10-27-2013, 10:28 AM   #48
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Ntombi: Man that is awesome to hear, so what you are saying is that i do not need to kill myself in the gym to lose a pound day. I do enjoy the benefits but man If all I have to do is marathon training and no weights to keep my average of a pound a day then I am IN!!!!!!!!!!! I just re-read your post you are saying that no studies PROVE that exercise speeds up weight loss. So I wasted time and money on a gym membership??? I just lost a pound a day all natural??? All the working out did nothing to speed up my weight loss correct??? I do not mean to be a crazy person here but that is what you are saying. So diet alone is the way to go, no need to touch the gym to get the results I am getting currently or in the past I was just wasting time running and lifting weights?

I use a heart rate monitor for my calories burn then subtract 20 percent to come up with my actual calories burned. To offset margin of error and keep my calories burned correct so I actually lose fat every day.

I do agree however with the stall theory. I am not a scale hog. I judge by the way my clothes fit or they way I look. Although I really enjoy when the scale tells me that what I am doing is working. I do not agree that simply dieting will get results. I may be wrong. I would like to test your theory by not starting gym training and see if I get the same results as 5 months ago. What do you think? Simple dieting alone and I will still average a pound a day? If that is the case I will be one happy camper, all this time I thought you had to exercise to lose weight, what an idiot I was.

What I am saying is when people think they can simply diet and lose weight like people that also work out, just does not make sense. I encourage people to work out on this thread and others due to the fact that it is good for you and I have achieved amazing results while doing it. Saying exercise does not help speed up weight loss is just mind numbing that people believe that. Ever watched extreme body make over when a guy diets and exercises and losses on average a pound a day. So the main guy Chris could just put them on a diet walk away and they would lose a 100 pounds in 90 days no exercise needed?

I know I sound very condescending in this reply and expect a full response. But please do not bring up grammatical errors or easy digs, just the facts please. I know science may not be matter of fact on the subject of exercise and weight loss but it seems to work for a lot of people.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #49
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Totally agree with Ntombi on this one.

I have never exercised because of medical conditions and I still lose weight. I have lost 20# in 3 weeks so far. I will walk some meaning mostly to my car and doing normal household work. I am a firm believer in knowing what your optimal ketosis macros are to lose weight. I use that as my guide and never really care about my calories, although I do track them. Some days I go as low as 300 cals a day up to the most I have had during the 3 weeks is 1700 a day. But my macros are always on target for me to lose weight. I use the ketosis calculator whenever my weight changes by at least five pounds.

When I was in my teens, bodywise I seemed very anorexic. I was 5'8 and only weighed 90#. I could eat and eat with calories over 2500 and still never gained weight. At that time in my life I had a very high metabolism and just constantly burned everything off. I also unintentionally was eating a lc diet and a lot of protein/fat.

IMO our bodies are all different, but a basic model for macros can be determined to keep you in ketosis based on your information, and you will burn the fat without exercise in ketosis and without worrying about calories.

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #50
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You can do whatever you like. You didn't waste money on a gym membership, unless you only joined the gym and workout to lose weight, disregarding all the other health benefits.

I am also restricted from exercise due to health issues, have been for over a year, and I've managed to lose about sixty pounds of fat and less than a pound of muscle since January 3. It's nothing close to your pound a day, but then I don't know anyone who is able to sustain that, especially losing only fat. Also, I'm older than you, a woman, and have chronic health issues that make losing weight harder. I also have managed to stay 100% on plan for close to ten months, which I remember is an issue for you.

So yes, I lose excess fat and maintain my 154 lbs of LBM via diet alone.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:19 AM   #51
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Very sorry about your health issues guys. Best of luck and you guys are in the right direction on the right diet to lose weight and not exercise. This diet was originally designed for large people that could not exercise and needed to lose weight to make it through surgery by Dr. Atkins from what I can remember.

I exercise because it speeds up my weight loss with out a doubt. I am a classic yo yo dieter. That is due to my poor relationship with food and addiction. But I just cannot tell somebody that exercise has nothing to do with weight loss. And I not only work out for weight loss but for the benefits as well. Now that that is done lets keep motivating each other to stay on plan and lose some fat!!!
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:02 PM   #52
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kemp - I also feel that exercise and doing this WOE helps me lose weight... I have always been that way.... if I joined diet and exercise I lost..... plus I really do feel better when I exercise..... I want to tone up my body..... oh, and your brisket sounds
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:03 PM   #53
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Pawleys: The brisket was awesome and I have enough for the week. And yes to say that exercise has no effect on weight loss is just plain nuts. But you can for sure lose weight without doing exercise but it does move faster if you do exercise and workout.
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:07 PM   #54
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No exercise??

Well, God bless the people that don't have to exercise. I wish I was one of them. I could, I guess continue with the diet alone, I just don't want to take a year to lose all my weight. 300 calories will work, I guess but that sounds kind of dangerous?? Unfortunately, I believe I am destined to work off the fat as much as watching my diet. I hate exercising like most people but it sounds like a necessary evil to bumping up the deficit numbers. We're all different and what works for one may not for others. All the best everyone.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:17 PM   #55
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bonny jean: well said. and way to stay focused looking forward to our shared success.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:54 AM   #56
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down another pound today..... and I do think it is because I did my walking DVD... early this morning did one hour of my WA... and this afternoon will do the walking DVD...... feeling really good today.....

hope that everyone is having a great day.... love ya all... diana
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:50 AM   #57
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Pawleys: Way to go on that pound down today. And way to keep moving and exercising, It is the difference I believe.

I will be starting my gym workouts today. Going to get the wife at work in about 1.5 hours to hit the running store and pick up some running shoes. Going to try and do a half marathon end of January. I was training for a full marathon about 5 years ago and got in an accident that broke my ankle and tore some tendons in my foot and did nerve damage in the other foot. I had run 14 miles that morning so I was there!!!!!!!! I have been doing therapy and the such to get back on the road running. It is my favorite exercise. Anyway going to try out the running today on the softer treadmill at the gym later today after getting my shoes. Wish me luck. Kinda of funny when I quite running I stop losing weight as fast. Wonder how that happened.! LOL
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:51 AM   #58
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Oh I did a ton of yard work yesterday in the yard a good solid work out and was down two pounds this morning!!!!
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:51 AM   #59
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MY body is officially a fat burning machine!!!!
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:17 PM   #60
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So my take on the exercise front is that it's not necessary for weight loss, but it sure doesn't hurt. I tried to eat bad and exercise and I got no where. I tried to eat good and not exercise, and started to lose. When I add exercise, it's like the magic formula for me. I do the best when I strive for both diet and exercise. It makes me feel healthier and smaller and I think helps me lose fat. It's nice to see so many other people here who also try to incorporate exercise into their WOE.

Kemp - you are doing awesome!! I want that brisket. I've never made one but had one that was homemade a year ago and it was the best thing ever. I need to try it sometime.

Pawley - I love how motivated you seem. I remember last time we were in a thread together and I don't think you ever got this low in your weight. You must be feeling great!!

Mjg - I love that you are combining JUDDD and Atkins. I did that a year ago and had GREAT success. It was probably the fastest weight loss for me actually. I just haven't gotten the motivation high enough to start it. I figure when my induction losses slow, I will start my JUDDD calorie swings.
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