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Old 11-30-2013, 03:21 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Big Stevie View Post
I just bought my first pair of 34" pants! This is my goal size. I started at 48. I tried them on expecting them not to fit but they did. Big day for sure.
Congratulations, Stevie! Feels good, I'm sure. And the business about body change without the scale changes -- reminds me of what Trillex was talking about a couple of days ago.
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Old 11-30-2013, 04:33 PM   #182
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Way to go Stevie!!!!
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #183
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WHOA ... Big Steve, what an incredible job you've done. Congrats!!!
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:59 PM   #184
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YAY!!!!! Congratz Steve! That is always a great feeling.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:39 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Big Stevie View Post
I just bought my first pair of 34" pants! This is my goal size. I started at 48. I tried them on expecting them not to fit but they did. Big day for sure.
As I promised you in the previous thread, per getting to your goal pants, I am currently doing the Mexican Wave and singing:

Olé!
Olé! Olé! Olé!
O- lé!
O- lé!

Congratulations, Big Stevie!!!
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:48 AM   #186
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Oh, the weird way the body stores fat. I have trouble finding clothes that fit because I have always, always, no matter my weight, from the 90s in high school to 140+ at my peak, had a disproportionately thick waist. And little saddle bags. After lifting weights and running a half-marathon. Right now, my hips are a little smaller than a size 00 Petite and my waist is size 6. On a good day. And sometimes I think it's because I'm so short that that space between the bottom of your ribs and the top of your pelvis doesn't exist on me. My ribs actually tuck into my pelvis a little. Which goes to show that I have thought about this probably too much! But I don't really care very much anymore. If I take a little time to find the right thing, I can look pretty snazzy. It's all Loft and Gap and local outlet, but I am a very happy camper and think I look terrific.
Girl, I have no doubt that you are gorgeous because you are a BEAUTIFUL person and it totally comes through on the forum.

I was in Chicago for Fall Break and, as I was getting dressed to go clubbing with friends, I looked in the mirror and thought, "My butt is so flat! Ugh!!!" Then I returned to reality and realized that I'm never going to look at myself and think I'm perfect because nobody is perfect. It would be insane of me at this point to search for flaws and then obsess over them because I'm strong and pain free now, and I can shake my flat butt all night in a club without feeling like I'm going to die the next day. #WINNING!
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:11 AM   #187
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It has all been just -- painless. Not at all stressful. None of that struggle with compulsive behavior or any sense of restriction and very little that I would call self-denial. I feel like I am in the driver's seat. For weeks I was really scared about increasing carbs because I was afraid that if I once fell out of the ketosis/induction state I would never get control again. But that's not the way it has worked at all. If I want to eat at a 40 or 50 net carb level for a day, I can just do it. If I decide I want to gain or lose a little, I can do that.

And I'm even starting to move just a little bit away from the whole "tracking" thing. I'm settling into a fun workout/activity schedule as well, without worry or pushing myself beyond what's comfortable.

The issue that has concerned me more than anything else has been the terrible statistics for weight loss maintenance. If you read the newspapers, the science writers will tell you it's just impossible to keep the weight off without turning your whole life over to the endeavor. But I feel really good about the way this process has gone so far, and I think induction is a great tool for maintenance. I'm going to stick with tracking for a while still (though I am a lot looser about it, and estimate a lot of things I used to measure) with the goal of eventually keeping just a simple diary of my weekly average weight and a few comments about how things are going. Low-compulsion maintenance. We'll see how it goes.
I totally co-sign this! Because I'm on the same page. I've only been in maintenance mode for about a month-and-a-half, so it's too early for a verdict, but maintenance thus far *feels* absolutely painful. After last year's holiday season, I passed the point where I felt like I was *missing* anything by passing on certain foods. I can't adequately explain why that happened, it just happened.

I'm currently on the "legumes" rung of the Ongoing Weight Loss ladder so I had black beans with Thanksgiving dinner. I'm still obsessively tracking because I'm an obsessive person so, of course, I got a measuring cup and measured myself a level half-cup of beans. The OWL foods -- including berries, legumes, and nuts -- added a bit of variety to my Thanksgiving Day meals but, honestly, I didn't *need* more food or obsess over eating beans and whatever or feel like the food part of Thanksgiving was the *treat* part of my day. Food was just food. I think this program has made me less obsessive about food and that's saying a lot because I'm *that person* who obsesses about EVERYTHING!

You're right, post-diet recidivism rates are shockingly high. Statistically, almost no one maintains for a year. I feel somewhat positive, though, because the highest adherence rates are found in groups who change their diets in response to medical problems. I didn't have *specific* medical issues, but I did start the diet and exercise program in response to a general set of troubling health concerns so I *hope* that will work in my favor. But who knows?!
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:06 PM   #188
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You're right, post-diet recidivism rates are shockingly high. Statistically, almost no one maintains for a year.
And of course, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. I think a good number of scientific studies are self-fulfilling prophecies.

I'll never get over that writer at the New York Times, and her "weight loss is impossible" article. An HOUR of exercise! Writing down what you eat! Oh the horror! Planning what you're going to eat ahead of time? Eating disorder!

Oh, please. Like being a couch potato who puts not a single serious thought into her diet is some ideal state? On what planet?
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:16 PM   #189
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After last year's holiday season, I passed the point where I felt like I was *missing* anything by passing on certain foods. I can't adequately explain why that happened, it just happened.
This statement is my truth. I don't feel like I am missing anything. It is truly freeing. I can't tell you how many people have been encouraging me to eat more. Saying things like are you really never gonna have desert again in your life. Life isn't worth living with...bread, rice, pasta, or whatever.

I am very fine with eating Induction Foods plus a little extra from time to time like peanut butter, nuts, BBQ sauce, and extra vegetables. It is truly enough for me. I have enough choices. I don't think I will ever go up the carb ladder.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:33 PM   #190
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I commend you guys for your focus. I really wish I had your will power.
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Old 12-01-2013, 05:34 PM   #191
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And of course, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. I think a good number of scientific studies are self-fulfilling prophecies.

I'll never get over that writer at the New York Times, and her "weight loss is impossible" article. An HOUR of exercise! Writing down what you eat! Oh the horror! Planning what you're going to eat ahead of time? Eating disorder!

Oh, please. Like being a couch potato who puts not a single serious thought into her diet is some ideal state? On what planet?
I think you're totally right. Weight loss is often horribly exploited by the media because it's so attention-grabbing. I've read a lot of clinical studies and research reports since starting Atkins and I don't think the studies are a problem. Most of the time, researchers are looking for answers to very specific questions. Just in the past couple of decades, for example, they've found out incredible things about hormones and enzymes and neurotransmitter activity in the human body. Key elements of human bodyfat loss were identified during our lifetime, for example, beta-3 receptor function was isolated in the 1980s and leptin pathways in the 1990s.

Here is a study that I found particularly fascinating:
The STEDMAN Project: Biophysical, Biochemical and Metabolic Effects of a Behavioral Weight Loss Intervention during Weight Loss, Maintenance, and Regain

The STEDMAN Project: Biophysical, Biochemical and Metabolic Effects of a Behavioral Weight Loss Intervention during Weight Loss, Maintenance, and Regain
This study is looking at the mechanisms involved in bodyfat reduction, maintenance, and regain. They take a close, fairly comprehensive look at the interactions that happen between various elements inside the obese human body. The study also briefly touches on behavioral issues (but I'm personally less interested in that aspect). I think this is fascinating and super important information but I don't think that covering this research report would make a good article for a popular publication because the information can't (shouldn't) be simplified into "do this but don't do that." Can you imagine how this would be represented in a magazine like Men's Health?

Unfortunately, I think the way the studies are reported in mass media outlets typically ignores the *point* of individual studies, instead they try to frame a particular weight loss study as if it says something significant about the *general* state of weight-reduction processes -- because this is the type of over-simplification that readers want. In many cases, oversimplifying the information makes it untrue. Pieces that try to entertain, rather than simply inform, are often problematic because they lead readers to cherry-pick the most appealing bits in a way that results in misinformation. I think most health writers do a good job, but the authors that write from an entrenched position cherry-pick the information they report in a way that goes beyond "statistical lies" into just flat-out lying.

Speaking of the New York Times, Gary Taubes infuriated the bodybuilding community by turning a kernel of truth into best-selling books full of misrepresented research data. Bodybuilders don't look to popular media for fat-loss guidance. But a lot of them are personal trainers who were put in the awkward position of dealing with clients who *believed* their nutrition information was based on science, when the research they were reading didn't accurately represent the underlying studies. The research wasn't the problem. It was the interpretation and representation of the research, backed by the apparent credibility and appearance of objectivity of an important New York Times author.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:48 PM   #192
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Speaking of the New York Times, Gary Taubes infuriated the bodybuilding community by turning a kernel of truth into best-selling books full of misrepresented research data...
Taubes is a strange case, isn't he? I remember reading some of his earlier articles on fat, cholesterol, and heart disease. Then I read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and somewhere about the last third of the book I started getting a funny feeling about the guy. I think somewhere along the way he became very agenda-driven. Or maybe he just knew that being even-handed and offering up complexity and uncertainty was not going to work for him professionally. I mean, listen to the radio or the TV -- they want advocates and bomb-throwers, not academics who hem and haw.

This is not an area in which I have any expertise (and I apologize if I painted researchers as a group with too broad a brush) but I do get the sense that Taubes's *historical* writing has made some pretty meaningful contributions to understanding how we got here, but as far as his claims about calories and exercise and such -- I think he goes farther than he can prove, and I don't trust him not to cherry-pick his data. He has that white-hot "true believer" sound to his voice now.

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Old 12-03-2013, 10:13 PM   #193
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Taubes is a strange case, isn't he? I remember reading some of his earlier articles on fat, cholesterol, and heart disease. Then I read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and somewhere about the last third of the book I started getting a funny feeling about the guy. I think somewhere along the way he became very agenda-driven. Or maybe he just knew that being even-handed and offering up complexity and uncertainty was not going to work for him professionally. I mean, listen to the radio or the TV -- they want advocates and bomb-throwers, not academics who hem and haw.

This is not an area in which I have any expertise (and I apologize if I painted researchers as a group with too broad a brush) but I do get the sense that Taubes's *historical* writing has made some pretty meaningful contributions to understanding how we got here, but as far as his claims about calories and exercise and such -- I think he goes farther than he can prove, and I don't trust him not to cherry-pick his data. He has that white-hot "true believer" sound to his voice now.
I think you're right AND you've addressed all of the key issues. Sales indicate that audiences don't want complicated truths, they want confident arguments that identify and condemn a simple enemy.

Taubes wrote best sellers about interesting, complex medical issues that are being explored by ongoing research. At this point, though, we don't have substantial enough research to make simple conclusions or determinations. I'm not sure whether it was Taubes or pressure from his editors, but his books manipulate data to make it seem that his positions are unassailable rather than revelatory in a complicated way. It's kind of unappealing sciencey stuff, but I linked to a study report in an earlier post because I think it shows the amazing complexity of interactions in the human body. We can't make simple pronouncements about a machine that is as complicated as ours. So Taubes can't make a legitimate scientific argument that implicates insulin to the degree that he pushes the argument because the science doesn't actually back that up.

Jeff Volek is a researcher at the University of Connecticut who also co-authored the New Atkins book, two other books on low-carbohydrate nutrition, and a fairly influential book on carb cycling for strength athletes. Volek is, like, the opposite of Taubes. Volek uses the research to put dietary carbohydrate restriction into a useful context, not to fiercely advocate a particular position.

Volek had a super interesting public debate last year (or maybe the year before) with Alan Aragon, who has trained champion physique competitors and elite, professional athletes. Volek was arguing the position that a long-term, very-low-carbohydrate diet is potentially beneficial to athletic performance because it can re-engineer the metabolic system to more efficiently access fat stores during athletic performance. Volek's position was almost exclusively based on research data and metabolic theory, so he was super clear that this is a *potential* advantage not some new *ideal* that people are foolish for not following. In his counter arguments, Aragon's position was based on a combination of research data and the results of the practical application of other approaches to athletic nutrition.

Aragon was basically saying that we have decades of evidence -- in the form of research data and in the strength and fitness accomplishments among the elite class of athletes -- to establish that nutrient targeting and carb cycling are the most effective nutritional tools we've found. Aragon cited strength and endurance setbacks among athletes who do low-carb diets for weeks without carb re-feeds. Volek responded to this with the research on keto-adaptation that shows the need for training adjustments and a long-term, very-low-carb commitment before athletic bodies can change their metabolic processes and reap the benefits. Volek was basically saying that it can take from six months to a year for an athlete to return to peak form but, after full adaptation, their performance improvements become unlimited because fat is a more abundant source of energy than super-compensated glycogen stores.

I enjoyed the exchange between these men because it was smart and respectful. Neither Volek nor Aragon argued in a competitive way, they both just let the data convey their positions. In the end, Aragon said that the truth is in the application and that the approaches he favors have allowed elite athletes to break boundaries and perform at previously unimaginable levels. Volek closed with the idea of innovation. He said that we constantly learn new things and that, when we get to the point when enough elite athletes make an investment in keto-adaptation, long-term very-low-carbohydrate performance diets will prove their value. Volek didn't do the Taubes thing of trying to go *beyond* the research to make his position unassailable, he stuck to what we know, what has actually been established, and talked about what we can potentially discover.
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Old 12-04-2013, 03:17 AM   #194
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Cool. I have a couple of Volek's books.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:24 PM   #195
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Trillex: Thanks for posting such great responses. It gives me the ammo needed to argue points with my idiot friends! LOL
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:45 PM   #196
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Trillex: Thanks for posting such great responses. It gives me the ammo needed to argue points with my idiot friends! LOL
HaHa, Kemp! You're hilarious!

I see on the challenge thread that you're old teammate, Amber, is back. I really miss that old thread. You guys are great! I hope Nurse Chelsea is doing well.
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:50 PM   #197
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Trillex: It is nice having Amber Back. I have not heard from chelsea in a long time. I just restarted about 45 days ago. Hope it sticks this go round. Doing things different this time. Not in such a hurry. (or at least I tell myself that) Just trying to figure out a long term plan.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:10 PM   #198
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Hey! Just want to shout out to my friend, Laura Davis! I hope all is going well with the move and settling in and stuff.

HUGS!
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:19 PM   #199
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I've been missing her too Tril! Hoping everything is going well with you Laura!
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:54 AM   #200
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I'm here... just been 2 weeks of chaos. John is here and we're starting to get into a routine. I'll be more regular in my posts at this point I do believe. I had so much to do to get ready for him and then the long long trip there and back. The last week with him here has been great. Spending a lot of time with him and showing him around his new environment. We both missed Turkey day so I cooked up ours 2 days ago. We had/have a 4.5# half ham, a turkey breast, collard greens, mac and cheese (for him) scalloped potatoes (also for him), broccoli and cauliflower in cheese sauce and green bean casserole. I did well though and lost a pound and a half since making the dinner. I'm down to 188.0, didn't think I'd ever get here and can't quite think of the next milestone for me yet. I got such a nice present for hitting the 180s, the love of my life...

Anyway it's bedtime, I'll check back in tonight.
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My recipes are here: http://lauraedavis69.blogspot.com/

and also a lot of them are here: https://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/l...ion-buddy.html

Next big goal for me....180 or 65# down
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:35 PM   #201
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I'm here... just been 2 weeks of chaos. John is here and we're starting to get into a routine. I'll be more regular in my posts at this point I do believe. I had so much to do to get ready for him and then the long long trip there and back. The last week with him here has been great. Spending a lot of time with him and showing him around his new environment. We both missed Turkey day so I cooked up ours 2 days ago. We had/have a 4.5# half ham, a turkey breast, collard greens, mac and cheese (for him) scalloped potatoes (also for him), broccoli and cauliflower in cheese sauce and green bean casserole. I did well though and lost a pound and a half since making the dinner. I'm down to 188.0, didn't think I'd ever get here and can't quite think of the next milestone for me yet. I got such a nice present for hitting the 180s, the love of my life...

Anyway it's bedtime, I'll check back in tonight.
I'm so happy for you, Laura! That is a VERY nice present!
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #202
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Staying on plan. Still not losing much lately but not gaining either. If I can stay the same and make it through the holidays, that will be great. I can not believe how much sugar and alcohol are getting shoved in my face this time of year on a daily basis. It is hard to continually say no and explain why. I am now getting the "you look so good, you can surely have some of this stuff now can't you" line.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #203
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I am now getting the "you look so good, you can surely have some of this stuff now can't you" line.
Why do people say that?! It makes NO sense to me. Seriously, if it wasn't good for me when I was 235 pounds then why would it be good for me now? I honestly don't understand the logic behind thinking that food doesn't matter because it's clear, from the results of my physical change, that food DOES matter. And it's clear, to me, that food put my health at risk. I didn't change my lifestyle to be healthy for six months or a year. I changed so that I can live a fitter, healthier life for all of the time I have left.

Fortunately, my family is full of bodybuilders who all put low bodyfat ahead of food, so I don't get those comments from my family. But my colleagues say things like, "So you're never going to have another french fry?" For some reason, despite knowing me when I was very heavy and clearly unhealthy, they see not eating french fries as a *sacrifice*. But giving up that garbage is what saved my life. Why would I risk everything I've gained for french fries? Why would I want to eat even ONE french fry at this point? How would the *flavor* of ANYTHING make my life better? I don't want to rant, but do you know what has made my life better? NOT eating freakin' french fries!

Do people say things like this to alcoholics? I'm not being facetious. Honestly, would these same people tell an alcoholic, "Hey, one drink isn't gonna kill you"? Maybe they *would* tell an alcoholic to go ahead and have one drink. Maybe people who have never suffered as a result of over consuming a substance can't understand that some of us just have to let some things go. I tell you what, this diet experience has given me so much MORE respect for recovering alcohol and drug abusers.

To be fair, I have a couple of girlfriends who use Weight Watchers to maintain their figures and I can definitely understand their comments that Atkins isn't for them. I can respect their perspective that they would rather eat small amounts of french fries than totally give up fries. But I honestly don't understand the people who can't see that I have to make *some* sustained compromises in order to be healthy. To me, sticking with the Atkins plan is the compromise that I can most comfortably live with.

On a positive note, one of my students -- a healthy, male, college freshman -- told me that he wished he had my arms. HaHa! I didn't meet these kids until September so they don't know what my bingo wings looked like last year. They just think I'm "jacked" and that I've been lifting forever. Ha! To me, that's MUCH better than french fries!
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Old 12-10-2013, 05:10 PM   #204
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Do people say things like this to alcoholics? I'm not being facetious. Honestly, would these same people tell an alcoholic, "Hey, one drink isn't gonna kill you"? Maybe they *would* tell an alcoholic to go ahead and have one drink. Maybe people who have never suffered as a result of over consuming a substance can't understand that some of us just have to let some things go. I tell you what, this diet experience has given me so much MORE respect for recovering alcohol and drug abusers.

On a positive note, one of my students -- a healthy, male, college freshman -- told me that he wished he had my arms. HaHa! !
Well my wife is an alcoholic and I can attest to the fact that yes people do say it. She has never publicized the fact that she has an alcohol problem, but when she say I don't drink, you would be surprised the number of folks who push her on it. I have gotten to the point where I step in and say forget about her, I will drink her portion! People laugh, and it gets us past it quickly.

So it sounds like the students are hot for teacher! Do we need to have a conversation.
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Old 12-10-2013, 05:41 PM   #205
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OFF TOPIC!

One more thing, Big Stevie:

How about the World Cup draw?!

People are being SO negative! But I see this as an opportunity. The USMNT is stronger than it's ever been! I think the negative comments underestimate what the US has to offer.

If anyone can leverage a weaker squad to hold Germany to a draw, it's Jurgen Klinsmann. Klinsmann was Jogi Low's predecessor at Germany. Low was his assistant on the national team and, up until this draw, Low regularly consulted with Klinsmann about Mannschaft tactics. Klinsmann knows the Germans. He understands their strengths and weaknesses. And he's highly motivated to *not lose* to his home country.

The US is physically bigger and stronger than the Portuguese. Cristiano Ronaldo IS amazing! That's true. He can run absolute riot and score crazy amounts of goals. But the Portuguese count on that. Portugal's PLAN A is to feed CR7 and they don't seem to have a PLAN B. When CR7 gets shut down, that team just keeps feeding him -- because that's what they DO. When that happens, CR7 gets frustrated and starts shooting from wherever he is on the pitch. We saw that when Portugal got knocked out of World Cup 2010 and again in Euro 2012. Remember all of his pouting and 40-yard shots? It wasn't pretty. Not even Luis Figo could save Portugal when CR7 got shut down at World Cup 2006. And Luis Figo was awesome! In World Cup 2014 qualifying, Israel held Portugal to a draw by putting everybody on CR7. In World Cup 2010, Cote d'Ivoire held Portugal to a draw by using the Ivorian strength and size to muscle CR7 out. Tripling up defenders on one player *shouldn't* work, because it *should* relieve the pressure on other players. But that's not how Portugal plays. They don't compensate when CR7 goes silent. So, if the USMNT shuts down CR7 and nicks a goal, they can beat Portugal. Plus, Nani is TERRIBLE now. I don't know what happened to him.

Ghana relies on their physicality and speed. The US is a match for that. Plus, the US has a better coach. There are two strong European teams in this group and Klinsmann knows how to play against that competition. Ghana has never been a technically *good* team. Yes, they knocked the US out of the last two World Cups. I still have painful memories of those events. But Ghana had a much better keeper back then. Kingson has retired from the national team, and Ghana's #1 during qualifying isn't very good. Larsen is super handsome and I totally want to marry him, but he's not a quality keeper. Some truly terrible teams scored on Ghana during World Cup qualifying -- EGYPT, for goodness sake! I love the Ghanian team, but the US can totally take them out.

No matter what happens in the match between Germany and Portugal, it favors the US and Ghana. If there's a winner in the match between Portugal and Germany, somebody loses 3 points. If it's a draw, they lose 4 points between them. Having two strong European teams in the same group means the strong teams will likely focus on going hard at each other in an attempt to dominate the group. And the less seriously they take the US and Ghana, the greater the chance that a weaker team can surprise them. The group stage is all about nicking points so, with a bit of math and a lot of luck, the US might be able to capitalize on the situation and graduate from the group.

I may be delusional but I'm hopeful!!!
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:53 AM   #206
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On alcoholism, in reply to Trillex and Stevie -- I concur with Steve. Absolutely, some people (usually people whose own relationship to booze is a little sick) definitely give you a hard time if you don't drink. And we all know people who try to force food on you. I pretty much just feel sorry for them, because no matter how quiet I try to be about these issues, they pick up on it and their anxiety is genuine. But if they don't eventually figure out that they need to leave me alone, I do let them know that I think they are being rude and bossy.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:53 AM   #207
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One more thing, Big Stevie:

How about the World Cup draw?!

People are being SO negative! But I see this as an opportunity.
I may be delusional but I'm hopeful!!!
Yeah, I am with you. I am over the moral victory of getting to the second round. If you are going to hoist the Cup, you gotta beat the best in the world. There is no way around it. Getting a couple of them early isn't a big deal in my mind. I think we have the right coach, we now have seasoned players who play in Europe, and the quality of our side should be there. Now it's time to do something big.

NOW BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAM

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Old 12-12-2013, 08:56 AM   #208
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On alcoholism, in reply to Trillex and Stevie -- I concur with Steve. Absolutely, some people (usually people whose own relationship to booze is a little sick) definitely give you a hard time if you don't drink. And we all know people who try to force food on you. I pretty much just feel sorry for them, because no matter how quiet I try to be about these issues, they pick up on it and their anxiety is genuine. But if they don't eventually figure out that they need to leave me alone, I do let them know that I think they are being rude and bossy.
I am with you. That is a good way of looking at it. It is about them.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:58 PM   #209
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Well my wife is an alcoholic and I can attest to the fact that yes people do say it. She has never publicized the fact that she has an alcohol problem, but when she say I don't drink, you would be surprised the number of folks who push her on it. I have gotten to the point where I step in and say forget about her, I will drink her portion! People laugh, and it gets us past it quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
On alcoholism, in reply to Trillex and Stevie -- I concur with Steve. Absolutely, some people (usually people whose own relationship to booze is a little sick) definitely give you a hard time if you don't drink. And we all know people who try to force food on you. I pretty much just feel sorry for them, because no matter how quiet I try to be about these issues, they pick up on it and their anxiety is genuine. But if they don't eventually figure out that they need to leave me alone, I do let them know that I think they are being rude and bossy.
That is truly sad! I'm a bit surprised because I haven't, personally, seen anyone take alcoholism or drug abuse *that* lightly. To be honest, though, I'm not surprised to hear that it happens. And I think Martha makes an excellent point about people responding to their own demons.

I was invited to a family barbecue in Chicago this summer by one of my good girlfriends that I grew up with, and her father was UNBELIEVABLE! My friend has struggled with excess weight her whole life. As you know, I was a lot smaller this summer than I've been in many years. So my friend's father says to me, "I see you finally pushed yourself away from the table." RUDE!!! Then he says -- about his own daughter, who was sitting right next to me -- "I keep telling her that she needs to put the fork down and have some discipline." Wait! It actually got worse. Then this dude says, "That's why I left her mother. She let herself go."

There are about a million problems with what this man was saying about me and about his own child. But I was especially struck by the fact that my friend's father is quite overweight. My friend had, like, two ribs on her plate and about a half-cup serving of potato salad. Her dad, on the other hand, had a plate piled so high that I could see the food on it while I was sitting down and he was standing over me. I'm not judgmental of what other people eat or what they weigh. I was just struck by the fact that this man was talking about his daughter stuffing herself with food, when she doesn't. And that he was belittling my friend because of a weight problem, while he has the same problem.

His comments about me were extremely rude but, to be fair, I am famous in the neighborhood for eating massive amounts of food so I've kind of earned that feedback about my eating habits. But he was belittling his daughter simply because she's overweight. I've known her my whole life and she's never had my problem with overeating.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:41 PM   #210
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One of my best friends was heavy from the time she was born, and the cruelty she has experienced all her life over it is just heartbreaking. It really messed up her childhood. It threw a little bit of a wrench in the friendship when I last saw her. I'm hoping we'll be past it when we see each other at Christmas.
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