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Old 01-07-2013, 11:44 PM   #1
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Induction help please (New here)

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking the last few days and already gotten some great info. I'm hoping you'll be able to help me out though.

Several years ago I did a modified Atkins (Curve's Diet from the exercise place) and lost many pounds. Back then, I was in ketosis after 6 days.

I've started back up again on a more traditional Atkins as of last Tuesday (1/1/13) - been under 20 carbs every day since then. Lost 1.6 pounds, maybe a 1/2 inch and I'm not in ketosis yet. I've been very strict about the carbs too, counting "real" carbs, not "net" carbs because thats what I did during induction last time too.

Just wondering if anyone has any tips as to what I could look at to try to figure out why I'm not in ketosis yet.

Typical foods include eggs, roasted or broiled meat (mostly pork), lots of veggies as I love them, 1 cup of coffee with 1 packet of Splenda in the morning, lots of water.

Thank you all so much. Looking forward to your input.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:43 AM   #2
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Hi Yennie, Welcome!!!!!!!

Can you please post a couple of days worth of menus with quantities?

Also, are you using a food logging tool somewhere, so you can figure out exact fat, carbs proteins and calories? This is a great way of getting a feel for how you are eating and what can be changed.

Are you eating enough fat? Not saying you need to add a stick of butter, but are you eating enough fat to make LC work?

Hope to be able to help further,

xxx Chloe.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:58 AM   #3
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Dairy may be a show stopper. And also artificial sweeteners.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:18 AM   #4
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Thank you for your quick reply. I've been tracking my stuff with a tracker and I'm between 1200 and 1500 calories (not accounting for the ones the program subtracts for exercise), 20 or less carbs, 75 or more protein, 70 or more fat.
Typical meals:
Breakfast - 1-2 eggs cooked in small amount of olive oil +/- 1 slice of paleo bread (1 net carb, 6 carbs total)
Lunch - tuna with mayo wrapped in romaine lettuce leaves as "bread" or egg salad wrapped in romaine lettuce. Sometimes 1 cheese stick.
Dinner - Protein varies between chicken breast, pork, beef, beef roast (we grow a lot of our own meat & will eat that). Side dishes include steamed, roasted or sauteed veggies consisting of broccoli, cauliflower, celery, non-sweet onion, mushrooms with SMALL amounts of parsnips & green beans added in. Exact veggie mix depends on exactly what I have available on any given day.
Snacks - celery with cream cheese, occasional hard boiled egg if not eating egg salad for lunch, cucumbers, pickles
I also usually eat at least one salad with full fat dressing (measured out to ensure it stays within carb limit) a day - romaine lettuce with a sprinkling of cheese, some mushrooms, celery & cucumbers, red peppers.

Any additional info or input greatly appreciated. The only other thing I can figure is different this time is I had the Curves shake last time (20g Protein, 20g carbs but were considered "free" carbs) and I had access to a free gym at the time and worked out 3 days a week with weights and 30 min cardio at my target heart rate. But I've got a bowflex & resistance bands I'm using this time, and walking/jogging on my own so...???

Thank you thank you thank you!!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:03 PM   #5
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I would say saute all your veggies instead of steaming them. The fat is good for getting into ketosis! Also, make sure you are limiting yourself to the 2 cups salad greens and 1 cup cooked veggies. When I've actually taken the time to measure, it's really not much! I'm used to eating way more. Also, not sure about the paleo bread. You may try skipping that for now and adding bacon or some other fatty meat to your breakfast.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yennie View Post
Thank you for your quick reply. I've been tracking my stuff with a tracker and I'm between 1200 and 1500 calories (not accounting for the ones the program subtracts for exercise), 20 or less carbs, 75 or more protein, 70 or more fat.
Typical meals:
Breakfast - 1-2 eggs cooked in small amount of olive oil +/- 1 slice of paleo bread (1 net carb, 6 carbs total)
Lunch - tuna with mayo wrapped in romaine lettuce leaves as "bread" or egg salad wrapped in romaine lettuce. Sometimes 1 cheese stick.
Dinner - Protein varies between chicken breast, pork, beef, beef roast (we grow a lot of our own meat & will eat that). Side dishes include steamed, roasted or sauteed veggies consisting of broccoli, cauliflower, celery, non-sweet onion, mushrooms with SMALL amounts of parsnips & green beans added in. Exact veggie mix depends on exactly what I have available on any given day.
Snacks - celery with cream cheese, occasional hard boiled egg if not eating egg salad for lunch, cucumbers, pickles
I also usually eat at least one salad with full fat dressing (measured out to ensure it stays within carb limit) a day - romaine lettuce with a sprinkling of cheese, some mushrooms, celery & cucumbers, red peppers.

Any additional info or input greatly appreciated. The only other thing I can figure is different this time is I had the Curves shake last time (20g Protein, 20g carbs but were considered "free" carbs) and I had access to a free gym at the time and worked out 3 days a week with weights and 30 min cardio at my target heart rate. But I've got a bowflex & resistance bands I'm using this time, and walking/jogging on my own so...???

Thank you thank you thank you!!!
How tall are you? You are eating very few calories... I would definitely be less afraid of fat. You could add some sugarfree or homemade mayo to your food, or cook in butter, or like biggestloser said sautee your veggies. Also, get rid of the paleo bread. It is not for induction, and should be eaten higher up the OWL rungs... I would also not eat parsnips yet. They are pretty high in carbs compared to other vegetables.

Let us know how you get on!

xxx C.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #7
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Thanks again all.
I'm 5'2". I'm not trying to be low cal, I'm just having a hard time eating more as I'm full! I'm trying to figure more ways to add fat, cream cheese seems to be a good option, and I thawed out some of our bacon. I'll toss the paleo bread back in the freezer (too expensive to throw out completely) ans give the last of the parsnips to the chickens.
I do use a lot of olive oil, but I guess not enough. I'm losing weight though (down another pound to 192) so maybe I need to be less concerned with the ketosis? Sure would be nice knowing its not all just water weight though.
Thanks again very much!
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:42 AM   #8
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My immediate reaction is about the veggies. Are you weighing them or are you guestimating, I know myself that it is really really easy to underestimate portions of veg, and because of them being 'good' for you your brain will always think that lots of veg is good for you. The other thing is parsnips no matter how little at this point is too much, they have nearly as many carbs in them as a potato and you would eat that now would you?
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:04 AM   #9
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OK, it looks -- to me -- like you really need to up your fat intake.

Try black olives stuffed with cream cheese as a snack! (I also toss these in an omelette.) Watch portion-control on the olives -- but a handful can help with getting enough fat.

Instead of buying full-fat dressing, try making some. It's quick, and by using fattier ingredients (cream instead of milk, for example), you can up the fat-content. (Plus, it tastes AMAZING!)

(Here are some threads with recipes for your own Ranch:
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...-dressing.html
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...g-scratch.html Multiple recipes
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ng-recipe.html Again, with multiple recipes)

Lastly, there are things only a low-carber would do: Fat Bombs and oiled coffee! ~chuckles~

The coffee sounds weird, but is very good. Basically, you use your immersion-blender to whip some grassfed unsalted butter and/or coconut oil into your morning cup. It comes out rich, smooth, and very VERY satisfying. I'm sitting here typing to you after a nice, hard workout at the gym today... fueled entirely by my morning cup of coffee (which had around 2 TBS of coconut oil in it.)

Fat-bombs... well, I'll let the threads explain them:
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...l-my-life.html
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...fat-bombs.html (Multiple recipes and links to other recipes)

Use the fatty cuts of meat.
Make cream-sauces to pour over things. (Heat a stick of butter, some cream, and some mozerella & parmasean until well-melted and blended. Will thicken as it cools. Dump the leftovers in your scrambled eggs in the morning.)
EAT THE FAT on your meat. Remember doing that as a kid, and how great it tasted? Yeah... it still does! (Eat the skin on your chicken, too, if you can manage it!)

Don't stress on the calories, at this point. They'll likely go up and down a bit, depending on your macronutrients and how you're adjusting them.

Glad you're ditching the bread. I MAY consider adding in "Paleo-Bread" when I'm approaching maintenance... certainly not now (and I'm several steps past Induction, and have been keto-adapted for months).
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10/31/2012: 38.6% 11/02/2012: 36.5%
11/03/2012: 39.1% 11/04/2012: 39.3%
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:13 AM   #10
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What fat bombs are induction friendly? Could a concoction of hwc and co be done or would it separate?
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:14 AM   #11
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Leave out the nut-butter, and you're golden. It's all FROZEN, so don't worry about separating. They freeze up quick -- like, within minutes -- so things aren't going to separate.

One of the things about LC is you learn to cook from scratch, and adapt things.

So... Start with 1 stick butter and 1 cup CO, and decide what you want it to taste like! Maybe a spoonful of vanilla, with 1 TBS cinnamon, 1 TSP each of nutmeg and ginger, and 1/2 TSP cloves. That'll give you a nice "spice-cookie" taste, with no forbidden ingredients or artificial sweeteners.

Don't like spice-cookies? How about a few drops of peppermint oil? Or lemon juice? Or....

As you can see, there's a lot to play with. I've done fat-bombs twice, now, and they were completely different. I don't sweeten mine at all -- I find they don't need it.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:37 AM   #12
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yeah! Thanks for that. I have some recipes, but most are with cocoa or chocolate. Would cocoa be ok on induction?
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:52 AM   #13
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If Dr. Atkins were still alive, he'd tell you no chocolate on Induction.

But then, I use chocolate in moderation and don't have a problem.

I only buy Ghirardelli chocolate -- life is too short to eat cheap chocolate, and Hershey's doesn't come CLOSE to standing up to it! I'm looking at my tin of Ghirardelli Unsweetened baking Cocoa. It lists a serving as 1 TBS, and that serving as having 2 net carbs. I think adding 2-4 net carbs to the BATCH of fat-bombs should be OK. It's going to be spread out over at least 12 servings.

Don't over-do it, and be aware that chocolate triggers cravings for some. But I think MOST people use a little chocolate in their fat-bombs. Just make sure you're starting with unsweetened chocolate, and you should be good.

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Old 01-10-2013, 02:58 PM   #14
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Okay thanks for the help. I might add some cocoa powder in the fat bombs I make. I think it might be a trigger for me though.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:47 PM   #15
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I can't thank you guys enough. I'm re-evaluating my menus, and had 3 slices of bacon (all that was left) with my fried-in-bacon-grease eggs this morning. And lots of cream cheese because that seemed to work for me today.
I will be getting some coconut oil tomorrow, luckily I live pretty close to an amazing and affordable health/natural food store that carries a lot of the ingredients you're all recommending.
One question - do you think chocolate flavored whey protein shake mix would work in a fat bomb to give chocolate flavor instead of cocoa? I made some mousse with that and it worked well.
I'll keep you guys posted. Much appreciation!!!
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:04 AM   #16
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Yennie, do watch for carbs in eggs, cream, cream cheese and other dairy products. They are not free foods and you should count them in your daily carb allowance. I know that dairy stalls certain people, so stick with the limits dr Atkins sets for their daily consumption...

Also adding fat does not mean eating enough fat to float a small country. I would start off by just not being afraid of fats or calories and see how that works. You don't have to eat fat bombs or fat coffee necessarily when you are on induction and you are using butter, olive oil, lard and coconut oil in your cooking, sauces and dressings... See how you go first with just the standard version of Induction before adding all sorts of extras. This way you can see how your body reacts to how the programme was written. Then, if this does not show any results in the two weeks, you can start changing one thing at a time till you find what works for you... (this is my suggestion, that's how I found what works for me...)

I would try and avoid protein powders for now, and stick with real foods whilst on induction.

Good luck and have a great weekend! Looking forward to your next update!

Some great Induction foods are:

Rib eye steak/ any beef
Pork belly steak/ any pork
Chicken thighs/ any poultry
Salmon/ any fish or shellfish
Smoked mackerel
Hard cheeses, but limited amounts
Butter
Avocado
Mayonnaise
Leafy green vegetables
Eggs
Bacon
100% meat sausages
Ground meat
heavy cream, but limited
Any kind of animal fat and Olive oil and Coconut oil
Cauliflower
Broccoli
Cabbage
Herbs
Spices
garlic
onions, but limited amounts; scallions give you more for less carbs
Salt
Olives
Cream cheese, but limited amounts

Try keeping your diet simple yet delicious, and stick with natural foods for now, you will see some great results, I'm sure! xxx
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:20 AM   #17
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Yennie -- "cocoa" does not mean "hot chocolate", but rather refers to the solid part of the cacao, bean, minus the cocoa butter. It's what you use, for example, when making a chocolate cake.

"Protein powders" -- ESPECIALLY flavored ones -- are a BAD idea on Induction. Like Mimosa said, stick with real foods.

And to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that one had to live on fat-bombs and bulletproof-coffee during induction. They were TWO items in an entire list. On the other hand, if these things help, don't be afraid to use them. There's nothing WRONG with eating enough fat to float a small country for a couple days. Most folks who have trouble starting out are not getting enough fat, and often have trouble figuring out how to add it, as they're starting out. (Pre-Atkins, fat usually came from carb-rich foods, when it was allowed in at all.) Having a quick way to get in lots of fat can be a big help.

Also, some bodies are initially very resistant to ketosis. These folks are helped by increased fat-levels as well.

There's a reason that the "standard version of induction" reminds us to eat lots of fat, and to eat fat every time we are hungry. It's the combination of scarce dietary glucose and plentiful dietary lipids that causes ketosis.

Not everyone follows a high-fat diet post-induction. (I can think of a couple specific board-members who don't.) But during induction -- for those two weeks -- there's really no limit on it.
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:59 AM   #18
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LiterateGriffin, I wasn't suggesting you said anything about living on fat alone, but I thought I'd clarify to our newbies that one did not have to add excess amounts of fat, just in case they would misinterpret your suggestions due to inexperience with this WOE, which is new to them... (Dr. A had a great anecdote about a patient of his eating sticks of butter in one of his books, as that patient had misinterpreted the eat fat liberally, and the don't be afraid of fats bit...)

Your suggestions are solid!
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:07 AM   #19
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I feel so sick today. Ate 3 eggs, 1 cup og coffee with hwc and now I am eating jello. The jello and cream mix. It had a nice sour taste, and it felt like it was just what I needed. I hope I'm okay to eat this once in a while. Cream and jello is induction friendly.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:34 AM   #20
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Thanks so much for your posts, they really helped me as I am still a beginner. I struggled at the beginning because my diet was too high protein, to be able to get into ketosis. I thought I was doing good because I had reduced my carbs, but with some intense calculations I figure out I wasn't getting enough fat, because my diet was too high in protein. I couldn't figure out why my body wasn't responding but you really do have to make way for the fat. It seems counter intuitive but it works. Most people can't get their head around 3 tablespoons of oil? How can that be a meal? But it can be and it works. I am still struggling a bit with the fat bombs, so I am going to check out the links you gave.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:55 PM   #21
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Good to hear I ate 70% fat today approx. 25% protein, 5% carbs. 19 net carbs. It was a good day I feel like I ate a lot and often.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:18 PM   #22
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I would like to thank you all again for the help. I must have been close because today the stick turned purple! And a bright, strong purple at that. No "trace ketones" for this lady.
The changes I made, based on all your suggestions, that put me over the edge were:
Cutting out all pre-packaged foods & shakes, even branded ones saying they were ok for "Phase 1", regardless of whether the label said they should work
Cut back on all veggies and was more selective about the ones I did eat
Made some fat bombs with existing ingredients (I was too anxious to wait until I had time to buy CO - which I now have). Although they're still tough to eat plain, blended into my morning coffee they're fantastic.
Added more mayo to my tuna

I so appreciate everyone's input. As stated above, I really was struggling with adding fat without carbs, and with an eye towards limiting dairy.

As I'm writing this, I've got that vague "blah" feeling Ive had before my first few days in ketosis. Either that, or my lack of sleep & 60 hour work week finally caught up with me I'm betting its the ketones and I've never been happier to feel blah.

Much love to you all.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mimosa23 View Post
(Dr. A had a great anecdote about a patient of his eating sticks of butter in one of his books, as that patient had misinterpreted the eat fat liberally, and the don't be afraid of fats bit...)

Your suggestions are solid!
Oh, goodness! That anecdote's not in any of the books/edition's I've read, or I'd have remembered it! OH, my! ~laughs~

Yes, it's very easy to focus on a tiny part of the advice given, and take that part to the extreme... and then wonder why things aren't working as advertised.

I didn't really take any offense at your remarks -- like mine, there was nothing wrong with them! I just wanted to thoroughly explain where I was coming from with what I did say.

First time I started, I had a REALLY hard time wrapping my head around the "fat is OK" concept. Like... giving up plain nonfat yogurt, but buying sour cream. Holy psychic whiplash, Batman! Or ditching the skim milk in favor of cream. (Yes, both dairy examples... ~chuckles~ I was a dairy-fiend at the time. Less-so now, as my husband has problems with it.)

And I do want to stress that there are a number of people on these boards who -- post Induction -- have had to limit their fat intake (some rather severely, if I remember.) Once you're keto-adapted, you'll have to play around with things, and find what levels work for YOU, and YOUR body -- regardless of what works for someone else's.

Yenni, if you check my house (fridge, freezers, cupboards), it'll look an awful lot like Mimosa's "shopping list". I've got some more stuff that's post-induction (nuts, nut-flours, FLAX SEEDS), and some rice and flour (sometimes used by other family members)... Spices, a collection of yummy vinegars... What you WON'T find are any pre-made products, of ANY kind. (Well, unless you count store-bought pickles. I think there's half a jar in the fridge. Maybe. Maybe not.)

On weekends, I may spend an hour or so pre-making things to eat during the week... Or I may just do it as I go. One of the nice side-effects of this lifestyle is you end up learning to cook, rather than just heating things up. It's really the only way to control your ingredients properly, which is SO important if you don't want to get blindsided by hidden carbs. ("What do you MEAN, they put STARCH in the eggs???" -- my reaction at finding that one of my fav pre-made breakfasts was off-limits)

The original "instructions" for Atkins involved avoiding processed foods at all costs. There's a reason for that. Whole foods, fresh and wholesome. It's what our bodies were made to eat -- not some processed shake or chemical-filled bar.

Really, before long, it'll be reflex. (Surprisingly, cooking from scratch is not actually harder or slower than using packaged-foods most of the time.)



OK -- I'm officially rambling! Sorry! ~laughter~
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:58 AM   #24
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I agree with being prepared and making food from scratch.
I have a full time job, and a whole house to take care of as well, and a busy social life, however I do find time to take care of my health and prepare my foods ahead of time, so I don't get caught out. In the past, the not being prepared would be one of the triggers into falling off the wagon.

Also, processed foods are my trigger. I know this, so I don't eat or buy them.

My BF on the other hand can eat what he wants, so we have a wide variety of foods in the house that are actually not on my list, LOL!

BTW, LiterateGriffin, I like your new Avatar!

Yennie, how are you getting along today? Sending good thoughts!
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:19 PM   #25
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Thanks for checking in. I was ketotic for only a few days. Obviously added something that didn't agree with the system. Still figuring this out. Stalled weight loss, but at least not gaining.
some questions while I try to sort this all out: how long do I stay at 20 carbs/day, and is the goal to stay ketotic the whole time? At what point do you start adding back the 5 carbs per week, and when is it ok to no longer be ketotic?
Finally, are there "low carb" foods that aren't induction friendly?
I thought I had this...until I didn't!
You guts rock.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:34 AM   #26
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Hi Yennie,

Regarding Induction, you can stay on it as long as you want.
Going to OWL (Ongoing Weight Loss) by adding 5 extra carbs per week, I would recommend staying in Induction for at least two weeks, and then, if you are happy with your progress, you can start going up the carb ladder. Make sure the 5 extra carbs every week are from allowed foods for the phase you are in. You can add carbs up to a level that you are still losing weight, and continue as such until you are near your goal, then progress to Pre Maintenance and eventually to Maintenance.

Most low carb marketed foods that you cannot directly see which animal or plant it is from are not really induction friendly.

Stay away from the bars, the shakes, the tortillas, the breads, etc etc. Eat natural vegetables, meats, fish, poultry, dairy and fats. Check for hidden sugars, they may stall you.

May I ask which book you have? There should be a list of allowed foods for induction. It should give you a pretty good idea of how your menus should look like.

Also, don't forget to drink enough water.

Some people are very sensitive to soy products. It could be that this is causing your stall as well. For health reasons alone, I highly recommend you stay as far away from unfermented soy products as possible.

Here's my menu today:
B: Bulletproof coffee (I don't have time to have breakfast, and this takes me through to lunch)
L: 4 oz tuna in olive oil, half an avocado, baby spinach leaves (1cup), 2 oz feta cheese. I use the olive oil from the tuna as dressing
D: not sure, most likely I will have a 2 egg omelette with 3 rashers of crispy bacon and arugula (again, 1 cup)

You see, simple and easy to make. I get everything my body needs as well.

Add to that 45 minutes of walking the dog at a moderate to high speed in 15 inches of snow and 10 large glasses of water and 2 cups of green tea.

I am not hungry because I eat enough fat, and I have plenty of energy.

This is just what works for me.

Also, the ketostrips are notoriously inaccurate. I would not get hung up on them. Go by how you are feeling and check your weightloss and also measure yourself so you can see if you are losing inches when you feel your weight has stopped going down. This should help motivate you!

My tip of the week: throw away the ketostix, they are only there to confuse, depress and annoy us Lowcarbers!

Let me know how you did this weekend!
xxx
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:36 PM   #27
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I'm going to completely disagree with Mimosa: I LOVE my keto-sticks, and I find them highly useful. HOWEVER, they are very VERY far from accurate. I'm also aware that I'm firmly in the minority on that score! lol The human body creates several kinds of ketone bodies, and the strips only test for one type. Lucky me, that seems to be the kind I'm good at making. If they work for you, use 'em. (I HAVE used the sticks successfully to diagnose which foods I need to avoid/add. But for some folks, they're obviously in ketosis and losing well, but the sticks NEVER turn... or they turn, but it seems to have no relation to how well they're losing.)

Yes, the goal is to stay in ketosis. When you are in ketosis, you are burning fat. I'm assuming you're here because you have excess fat to burn (I know I sure do!), so this is what you want to be doing all the time.

It's a much more stable energy-source for your body, which is why you feel so much better when you're in ketosis. It's like stoking your fire with oak logs instead of pine-chips: The chipped pine may burn fast, but it burns QUICK, and then you have to add more. The oak will give you a nice, steady heat all night. (Gee, can you tell it's cold in the room I'm in?)

I stay on induction-level carbs for... a VERY long time. I do, gradually, add in "non-induction" FOODS as sources of those carbs. I really don't deliberately increase my carb-levels. Over the course of months, there'll be times where, say, I realize I've been going salad-crazy... or had a few too many hidden carbs when eating out... or whatever. And so I'll cut back more severely again for a few days, till my sticks are purple and my weight's going on the correct direction again.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:43 AM   #28
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Start Date: started induction 12/27/2012
I agree on the ketosticks. They seem to help motivate me and help me to know what foods to add or take away. I haven't lost too much yet as I just started 12/27/2012 but I am eating til I am full and not starving and still losing at a steady pace which is good with me.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:51 PM   #29
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Yennie - how are you feeling this week?
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