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Old 08-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #1981
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And I have been looking after my electrolytes.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:06 AM   #1982
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Originally Posted by martha View Post
Wow. Three days after my induction high and I have just been floored all day. After that one great day I've been running out of juice, very fatigued, and even getting a little emotional about the deprivation -- which is very new. And I don't like it. Glad I'm at the end of the two-week induction (which may have been closer to three weeks, depending on whether you count a week in the low 20s before I finally shoved it down into the teens). Really tired of this and want to go to something more forgiving, like 30 net. This is a strange way to feel for me, so negative about the whole thing. It's really not like me.
I've read about a couple of *potential* causes for this kind of thing. But please take this with a grain of salt because each individual body is so different...

It could be a form of sugar withdrawal. You've mentioned that you were previously eating a large number of daily carbohydrates but I don't know how much of your daily carb budget was actually sugar. Sugar specifically affects brain chemistry by stimulating the action of a neurotransmitter hormone called "dopamine." Dopamine release is stimulated and regulated by things that cause physical pleasure -- stimulant drugs, sexual stimulation, and *reward* foods or *sweet* foods can all dramatically affect or alter dopamine levels. Dopamine affects the "reward" center of the brain. It's part of your body's natural system of making you feel *balanced* and *gratified*, so changes in your dopamine level might result in your feeling physically and emotionally imbalanced.

Not everyone has the same physical reaction to systemic changes in dopamine, so some people will be quite sensitive to changes whereas others won't experience any notable side effects. But if you are one of the people who is sensitive to changes in your dopamine level, it might cause you to suffer a significant level of physical and emotional discomfort.

Dopamine is a "catecholamine" hormone. But completely unrelated to your dopamine levels, you could have changes in your systemic levels of the other catecholamines -- particularly "epinephrine" and "norepinephrine" (also called adrenaline and noradrenaline) -- which might cause uncomfortable physical and emotional imbalances. The systemic levels of epinephrine and norepinephrine in the human body are regulated and naturally limited by insulin release. So changing the level at which your body releases insulin, by dramatically restricting dietary carbohydrate intake, naturally allows a higher level of epinephrine and norepinephrine to circulate through your body.

The catecholamines are called "fight or flight" hormones because their release increases blood pressure and heart rate, and generally acts as a nervous system stimulant. Basically, these are the hormones that prepare your body to physically react to danger, so having a high level of these hormones in daily circulation could cause anxiety, discomfort, and a variety of other uncomfortable symptoms in a person who is sensitive to their effects. As with dopamine, not everyone is sensitive to the effects of the catecholamines. But if you are a person who is sensitive to them, they could cause you a significant amount of discomfort.

If you are sensitive to the effects of the catecholamines, then you definitely don't want to have any of the chemicals that stimulate their release while you're eating a low-carb diet that doesn't release insulin in a way that limits systemic catecholamine levels. Caffeine and nicotine dramatically stimulate catecholamine release, in case you're using either of these chemicals. Other than that, your body *should* eventually adjust and better manage a higher systemic level of these catecholamines. Epinephrine and norepinephrine are "lipolytic" hormones that increase the release of fat from fat cells, so bodybuilders actively work to maintain a higher level of these hormones while they're on "cutting" diets, but most bodybuilders find that the *jittery* stimulant effect generally wears off after a few weeks and they start feeling normal again.

Dopamine is a more difficult issue to address. Dopamine is complicated. It does a lot of intricate work inside the human body and I don't think anyone *really* knows how to address systemic imbalances of dopamine. Even the treatment of the dopamine issues related to Parkinson's Disease seems to be a bit experimental at this point in time.

Maybe raising your daily carb level will stop whatever it is that is making you feel bad. We're all individuals so, at a certain point, all you can do is experiment and find the approach that feels *right* to you...
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:13 AM   #1983
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Hi. I'm Jen. I like food.

Hi folks! I'm back on the Low-Carb thing for a while after 1) not caring and eating anything I wanted for a while then 2) deciding that Weight Watchers was TOO lenient (why yes, I will eat 12 brownies for 20 points, I just won't eat the rest of the day!)

Having a rough time working the night shift and wanting to snack a lot... no clue what to make/eat for snacks. 12-hour shifts make it hard to really stay energized without food of some sort.

Hoping to lose about 100 between the low-carb thing and working out with my trainer. Hoping to start up Zumba and Yoga in a while too.
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Old 08-04-2013, 04:54 AM   #1984
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DHoward12Fan - Hey I work 3rd shift. I have gotten to where I really don't need snacks at night but when I did eat them:

smoked turkey wrapped with hard salami

hard boiled eggs

cheese microwaved into chips

aldi's american cheese made into crackers in the microwave (they poof up), I top these with either sour cream and a bit of crumbled bacon or (not induction friendly but yummy) a lil bit of natural peanut butter.

celery with a bit of ranch

Also BBQ or cook meat on your days off so you have a handy ready go to food. Do not let yourself get "too hungry" your more likely to eat anything handy when this happens.

I'll get in my LC cookbook and get some more ideas for ya. This list should start ya off though. Kinda tell me what ya like so I know where to head in food choices.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:31 AM   #1985
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Welcome Dhoward12 fan (although being a Laker fan I have a hard time with your name). This is a very good program and it will work for you if you work it. Just go for it. You can snack away all night as long as the stuff you eat is on the induction food list. I used to eat every hour because I had hypoglycemia really bad. I can tell you, once you get rid of sugar, your need and desire to snack will go away.

Hang in there Martha. Give it a little bit of time. I would suggest that you stay on Induction at least another week and really find out what is happening. It may not even be food related at all.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:20 AM   #1986
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Trillex, thanks so much for the very thoughtful and information-packed reply. (Brains, looks, and a kind heart, this girl should go far...) Stevie, thanks for your help, too.

I slept a lot yesterday, then got up today feeling pretty good. But walked to the end of the next block and back and boom, back into the fatigue and crankiness. Looked at my log and this has been a crappy week for working out, too. Just no juice. Calorie intake about 8 to 10% below what it had been, too, because appetite has been non-existent to the point of having to choke food down, but staying between the lines on calories has not been a problem for a while.

I am at the point in my summer where I have to travel for a week and then get ready for school to start, so my plan is to moderate a little, aim for 25 net and accept 30 if that happens, and maybe revisit induction in October if I think I might benefit from it. That's assuming that my problems are coming from my diet at all, but I think it's likely. I have been reading a lot about ketogenic diets and the brain, and that's one reason I was really interested in getting and staying in that zone. My family tends to a couple of health issues that it looks like ketogenic eating would help. So I'll probably try it again.

Thanks again, folks!
Best, Martha
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:35 AM   #1987
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PS, Trillex, the business about the catecholamines sounds like it might be what's happening with me. My caffeine intake has actually gone up during this period, not through the roof, but up. I think the sugar withdrawal is less likely to be relevant right now, because I've been in the sub-50 net range for six or eight weeks and not eating more than a teeny amount of fruit.

It's a shame I can't, as Stevie suggested, stick to it a while longer and see if my body adapts or figure out what's going on. But I need to feel better to do what I need to do. (Like dance this Friday night!) On the up side, my waist and belly are visibly losing fat, and that's great, that's the "cosmetic" effect I was hoping for, though, at this point, my main interest in the ketogenic diet is really whether I can stay in it longer term -- for maintenance and general health.
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Old 08-04-2013, 12:20 PM   #1988
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As a person who suffered his entire life with hypoglycemia, I can assure you Martha, I feel your pain. This way of eating just really cured me of hypoglycemia. I had to do a lot of trial and error in the beginning in order to get it all sorted for my body/brain. I discovered early on that many of the artificial sweeteners gave me symptoms like you are describing, so I avoid them. Caffeine also causes my blood sugar levels to drop (I understand this is rare, but it happens to me.) Everyone is a little different and you have to limit your foods and then add back stuff to see what is causing the problem for you. I wouldn't give up, I would continue to experiment. Remember, this isn't about a dance this week, it is about a lifetime. You always have more chances. In time I am sure you will figure out what works for you.
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:17 PM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHoward12Fan View Post
Hi folks! I'm back on the Low-Carb thing for a while after 1) not caring and eating anything I wanted for a while then 2) deciding that Weight Watchers was TOO lenient (why yes, I will eat 12 brownies for 20 points, I just won't eat the rest of the day!)

Having a rough time working the night shift and wanting to snack a lot... no clue what to make/eat for snacks. 12-hour shifts make it hard to really stay energized without food of some sort.

Hoping to lose about 100 between the low-carb thing and working out with my trainer. Hoping to start up Zumba and Yoga in a while too.
Welcome back to Atkins! I started at 235 pounds and my goal is to lose 100 pounds. So, very similar to where you're starting!

Laura is the expert on working the night shift and making Atkins work. The only thing I would say about snacking while working is to pay attention to *when* and *why* you're eating, to learn when/if you're eating to genuinely satisfy hunger and when/if you're eating because you're bored at work (or something like that). I've been following Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution, which says to "eat when you're hungry" and only "eat until satisfied." It sounds really corny but that advice has honestly been the most helpful thing to me on this diet. Once I got into the mindset that food is about hunger -- and not about emotions or entertainment or whatever -- I wasn't tempted to eat off-plan, no matter what circumstances I was in.

If I had kept eating the way I was eating -- but just replaced the previous foods I was eating with low-carb foods -- I think it would have been more difficult for me to stick with the diet for the long term and I don't believe my progress would have been as consistent. I don't know anything about your situation but, personally, I had to change my mindset in order to change my body (for the long-term).

Good luck! Welcome back!
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:27 PM   #1990
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PS, Trillex, the business about the catecholamines sounds like it might be what's happening with me. My caffeine intake has actually gone up during this period, not through the roof, but up. I think the sugar withdrawal is less likely to be relevant right now, because I've been in the sub-50 net range for six or eight weeks and not eating more than a teeny amount of fruit.

It's a shame I can't, as Stevie suggested, stick to it a while longer and see if my body adapts or figure out what's going on. But I need to feel better to do what I need to do. (Like dance this Friday night!) On the up side, my waist and belly are visibly losing fat, and that's great, that's the "cosmetic" effect I was hoping for, though, at this point, my main interest in the ketogenic diet is really whether I can stay in it longer term -- for maintenance and general health.
Good luck, Martha! The most important thing is to take good care of yourself.
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #1991
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I am in a bad place emotionally, and spent the last few days falling back to my old ways of dealing with emotions by making myself sick on carbs. I have snapped out of it, 8lbs later I'm back to my nemesis of 175 and back on induction again. Sugar didn't make me feel better. I was stressed out, depressed and now felt fat on top of it.
I'm still stressed and depressed but at least I can control that one little thing. What food I put into my body. It's not much, but a little control is better than nothing. Updating my stats... *heavy sigh*

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Old 08-06-2013, 12:29 AM   #1992
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I am in a bad place emotionally, and spent the last few days falling back to my old ways of dealing with emotions by making myself sick on carbs. I have snapped out of it, 8lbs later I'm back to my nemesis of 175 and back on induction again. Sugar didn't make me feel better. I was stressed out, depressed and now felt fat on top of it.
I'm still stressed and depressed but at least I can control that one little thing. What food I put into my body. It's not much, but a little control is better than nothing. Updating my stats... *heavy sigh*
I wish I had some answers or helpful insight into the emotional side of this journey. It seems to me like the food part is simple -- eat this but not that, eat until satisfied but not stuffed -- but the emotional challenges always seem to be ready and waiting to interfere with forward progress.

Hang in there, hon! You're doing great! You haven't just lost pounds, you've made your life better -- you've WORN THE TREAD OFF RUNNING SHOES! You're climbing mountains! Most long journeys will take you up hills and down hills. But you can totally handle these little hills because YOU are a freakin' mountain climber!
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:24 AM   #1993
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Good Morning, I am still catching up on your posts! But I wanted to stop in and Let you know how much I enjoy reading your Posts and hearing all of your successes and even slips. You seem like a very supportive group of folks.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:59 AM   #1994
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Thanks Trillex. Yes, technically, this diet is very simple. It wasn't the science of food that made me fat. It was my drug of choice and like any addict, I didn't know when to say no. I was doing really well, faced some challenges and kept on track. I thought I was past this. But I took my wedding ring off on Friday and filled out the divorce paperwork yesterday, and I'm telling you... I want to drown in a vat of ice cream.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:51 AM   #1995
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Wow cmcd that is some serious stuff. I sure hope it works out the way you want it to. Stay strong. You know that food isn't the answer, now you just have to beat your emotional side into submission. We are with you!!!
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:15 AM   #1996
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As a person who suffered his entire life with hypoglycemia, I can assure you Martha, I feel your pain. This way of eating just really cured me of hypoglycemia. I had to do a lot of trial and error in the beginning in order to get it all sorted for my body/brain. I discovered early on that many of the artificial sweeteners gave me symptoms like you are describing, so I avoid them. Caffeine also causes my blood sugar levels to drop (I understand this is rare, but it happens to me.) Everyone is a little different and you have to limit your foods and then add back stuff to see what is causing the problem for you. I wouldn't give up, I would continue to experiment. Remember, this isn't about a dance this week, it is about a lifetime. You always have more chances. In time I am sure you will figure out what works for you.
I have been thinking about Steve's post quite a bit. I'm very, very lucky in that (even though I have a family history of diabetes) I have so far not suffered any of these really serious conditions. I just got lazy, ate unwisely, and got fat. Most of that has been mostly corrected at this point, but now comes figuring out the future, and how to maintain. I'm creeping along very carefully right now. I averaged somewhere around 16 or 17 net carbs last week and am aiming for about 23 this week. And I finally picked up a magnesium supplement. I hesitate to take supplements, because over and over I've paid for the things and taken them faithfully, only to hear later that they either have no effect or that the effect is negative (!), so I'm going with a moderate dose and will see how it goes.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:17 AM   #1997
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CMCD -- good luck with this. It's a terrible thing to go through, and I'm sorry to hear it.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:44 PM   #1998
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Originally Posted by cmcd1070 View Post
Thanks Trillex. Yes, technically, this diet is very simple. It wasn't the science of food that made me fat. It was my drug of choice and like any addict, I didn't know when to say no. I was doing really well, faced some challenges and kept on track. I thought I was past this. But I took my wedding ring off on Friday and filled out the divorce paperwork yesterday, and I'm telling you... I want to drown in a vat of ice cream.
I'm so sorry you're going through this! I don't have anything helpful to offer -- I'm not even married -- I just want you to know that I think you're a great person and I'm here to support you in whatever way I can.
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:09 AM   #1999
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CDM - I've been through this twice... best advice I can give you is:

a) get a hair cut
b) buy a new pair of shoes
c) keep the kleenex handy
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:46 PM   #2000
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Well as everyone knows I was stuck for a long time and then finally started to move last week. Down two more pounds and my 36 inch waste pants are starting to slip down. I have been able to wear them without a belt for the past 3 months. This is good news, I started out with a 46 waist and my goal was 34 which is the next stop. So I am literally inching up on my goal waist line. Here is a picture of me at a show I did last week in my 36 jeans.


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Old 08-07-2013, 05:07 PM   #2001
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That's a great pic Steve! So proud of you.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:37 PM   #2002
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new experiment in the oven now... can't wait to taste it. Chocolate Zucchini Cake. Gonna make a cream cheese frosting for it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:00 PM   #2003
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WOW I just checked my measurements. WOW!!!!!

Start:
waist: 49 3/4
Hips: 51
Chest: 51
Underchest: 45 1/2
Weight: 245.7

Now:
waist: 42 1/2
hips: 43 12
Chest: 44
Underchest: 40
Weight: 206.6

:jump joy:
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:45 PM   #2004
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CDM--I'm an extremely emotional eater, too, and I feel your pain. I've been struggling with navigating my wagon the last few weeks. I find ways to binge on "legal" foods, and it's the worst feeling in the world *knowing* and fully acknowleding that I have a binging problem.

Luckily, my scale didn't fluctuate too much, and I didn't entirely cave and go for pasta or pizza..but my "pizza fiasco" a few weeks ago was enough to throw me into a bad place. I got right back on track afterward and I made it back into ketosis for a few days, but then the binging on lemon pepper salmon, pork rinds and sour cream, and cheeses has been enough to make me feel down.

I was out of town the last 3 days, and luckily, I didn't have time to sit down in binge. I ate mostly meat and eggs out of convenience, and the scale is sitting in a good place at the moment.

I can't imagine having the stress of a divorce on my plate (it probably WOULD look a lot like a vat of iceceam, heh) but I will say this: If you've gotten to the point that you've filed the papers, you've considered every possible route to take to "fix" things already..and you are intelligent, strong, and have will power to climb mountains, so while it's incredibly difficult and defeating now, trust yourself and know that you're doing the best that you can do for yourself. I have two close friends that have gone through divorce--and the initial months were definitely tumultuous for them--an entire overhaul of everything they knew, and a lot of identity re-forming. They are in much better places now, though. So, as with anything, take a day at a time, and give yourself a hug. I like Laura's idea treating yourself with a hair cut and new shoes--it's going to be a longer lasting gratification--WITHOUT the consequences of an extra pound and all of it's stupid guilt.

Stevie--you look smokin! Congratulations and keep up the good work!

Trillex-You're Napoli dress is BEAUTIFUL! and your words of wisdom, sincere encouragement, and positive vibes are definite graces. Thank you.

Laura-HOLY MEASUREMENT SUCCESS! And Chocolate Zucchini Bread? Do tell. Haha.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:28 PM   #2005
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Not sure if I like it yet... I've only eatin 5 spoonfuls. It's still warm and very very moist. Might have to play with the measurements of liquid a bit. Gonna wait until it's cool in the morning and then decide. It is very though. I made a cream cheese frosting to top it with. Give better results tomorrow when I know more of how it's gonna act.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:24 PM   #2006
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Here is a picture of me at a show I did last week in my 36 jeans.
Look at that cool dude. Cool skinny dude.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:27 PM   #2007
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Congratulations, Laura!
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:13 PM   #2008
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Look at that cool dude. Cool skinny dude.
Well I am getting skinnier. But I am still clinically obese! 5 more pounds to go. Darn medical community.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:25 AM   #2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Stevie View Post
Well as everyone knows I was stuck for a long time and then finally started to move last week. Down two more pounds and my 36 inch waste pants are starting to slip down. I have been able to wear them without a belt for the past 3 months. This is good news, I started out with a 46 waist and my goal was 34 which is the next stop. So I am literally inching up on my goal waist line. Here is a picture of me at a show I did last week in my 36 jeans.

Way to go, Big Stevie! You'll be at goal SO SOON! That's super exciting!
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:32 AM   #2010
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Stats: 235/135/135
WOE: Atkins
Start Date: 11 May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraDavis View Post
WOW I just checked my measurements. WOW!!!!!

Start:
waist: 49 3/4
Hips: 51
Chest: 51
Underchest: 45 1/2
Weight: 245.7

Now:
waist: 42 1/2
hips: 43 12
Chest: 44
Underchest: 40
Weight: 206.6

:jump joy:
That is STELLAR, Laura!!!

That's why measurements are so important. Because not everyone can look into the mirror and accurately gauge their progress. Plus, the scale only tells a partial story, and sometimes the scale can take some time to reflect fat loss progress. But when you lose inches, that tells you a lot about your underlying changes.
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