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mjgh06 10-31-2013 09:23 AM

Original Atkins 72 - Do you follow it?
 
Does anyone here follow the original Atkins plan without modifications?

I am continually re-reading it and noticed that so many people use 'their' variations of it or the newer versions.

In the original - Atkins stated he never had a case where his diet did not work for someone. It was all about finding your Critical Carbohydrate Level (CCL). His plan to me was very simple and he stated your CCL could change throughout your life. You didn't have to wait 3-6 weeks for a stall out to fix it, you were supposed to make a change the first week you stop losing unless you were in maintenance.

I think many people have misread what was allowed the first week and not always following what he said to do if there was a stall. Maybe they forget and don't re-read or with all the 'new' info, it just get jumbled up. Here is how I have read the original plan and I have read and re-read the entire book to many times to count.

First of all pg. 126 he wants you to take in double the daily minimum multivitamin requirement with at least 800 units Vit E, 1000mg Vit C, double the recommended Vit B complex. He says not to go over recommended dosge for vit D and Vit A. He also says to take in additional calcium if you experience leg cramps and extra potassium for fatigue, and salt for weakness from rapid weight loss.

He also encourages the use of the ketosticks throughout although he does state the diet can be done without them. His importance on use was to help you with monitoring your CCL and how well your body is functioning in burning the fat stores. I know there are studies and people that say color variances of the sticks are not imprtant as long as it is pink. But imo there is something to the different shades if you take in all the rest of your information like he point out, and it can help you to know when and how to change your woe.

The first week you take in basically 0 carbs -only one week of induction. We all know the meats, fowl, eggs, are all acceptable. But not all seafood is - leave out oysters, clams, mussels, scallops and any pickled fish. The original didn't limit margarine, shortening, or mayo. It also allowed artificial sweeteners, vinegar, extracts and other condiments w/o sugar. You could enjoy coffee, tea, diet soda as long as it did not contain sugar. You could have the juice of a lemon or lime, 4oz of cheese incl. cottage, but no cream cheese or cheese spread. Heavy cream was allowed at 4tsp a day but no milk.

I have seen posts where someone states their are acceptable salad veggies allowed during the first week of induction that I believe are not listed. Under salads the first week pg. 137 it states (bold I did for emphasis)- "Two small green salads a day (each less than one cupful, loosely packed) made only of leafy greens, celery or cucumbers and radishes. Dressings with vinegar, oil, salt, dry spices, herbs, grated cheese, or anchovies. Or else a sour pickle in place of a salad. Plus . . . green olives."

I think people have added in the veggies that are allowed starting week 2 on pg. 138. Induction week above clearly states leafy greens, celery OR cucmbers and radishes. OR a sour pickle instead of salad, plus GREEN olives. If induction week were to include the salad material listed on pg. 138, there would have been some reference to it on the induction page listing.

Atkins wanted this to become a permanent way of life and wanted it to be something that could be done easily. So, after Induction week or Level 1 as it is called, he did not specify what you could or could not add back into your diet. In fact pg. 144-145 he said put back what you've missed most as long as it starts at only 5-8 grams of carbs a day for the week. You would continue adding something new at 5-8 grams of carbs each new level until you reach your CCL. Regardless of the level the constant is to avoid sugars, and he believes nothing is more likely to stop your progress than fruit.

So how did you determine when to move to a new level or know your CCL?

He asks key questions on pg. 144 to know if you are ready to move to a new level.
Are the ketostick turning purple? Are you no longer hungry? Have you stopped eating at night? Do you have more energy? Are you still losing weight or inches? If yes to all of the questions, you can start a new level and start adding in the 5-8 grams of carbs per day per week. At the end of the week, you ask yourself those same questions to determine if you can go to the next level adding in another new 5-8 grams of carbs per day per week.

For CCL, pgs. 148-149 you will determine this in a similar way, you go through the levels and when you find that things have stopped working You no longer answer YES to your questions, you have found your CCL. When that hits, you go back to the basic (phase 1) plan for two - four days and then back to the week (level) before you stopped losing. He states the CCL may not run constant throughout your life and that is why you must keep asking the questions and reevaluating your levels especially while losing weight.

So when I hear about people saying they are on Atkins 72 and have stalled, I immediately wonder have they followed the plan, gone back to level 1 and then to the level they left off at when they where losing or gone back through the levels if their CCL point had changed. There is also a whole chapter dedicated to helping those who get stuck temporarily.

Once you get within 5-6 pounds of goal, you should add in an addtl 5 grams of carbs until your weight loss slows to less than a pound a week. The lst 5-6 pounds should not be lost at more than that rate. And move into the long-term maintenance.

If you started on the plan with only 10 or less pounds to lose, he says you can go through the levels every four days instead of the week as long as you are answering yes.

Did Atkins say Calories don't matter? No, he said not to worry about counting them. On pg. 275 he states that they do play a role - "A 1,500-calorie, ten-gram diet will take more weight off - and more quickly -than a 2,000-calorie ten-gram diet. If the carbohydrate levels remain unchanged, then extra caloric intake does make a difference.

LadyN 11-02-2013 02:02 PM

I am following it as written with the exception of dairy. I am allergic to dairy, so I don't eat any. I stick to the plan as written. I too adore the simplicity of counting. total carbs and not being restricted as to what I can add back in what order.

I am losing nicely, my stix turn dark pink not ever purple, and I am losing inches. I added in flax first, then the veggies listed on PG. 138.

This plan works when followed as he intended.

LadyN 11-02-2013 02:14 PM

think people have added in the veggies that are
allowed starting week 2 on pg. 138. Induction
week above clearly states leafy greens, celery
OR cucmbers and radishes. OR a sour pickle
instead of salad, plus GREEN olives. If induction
week were to include the salad material listed on
pg. 138, there would have been some reference
to it on the induction page listing.

THIS!! I have seen this too, and wondered about their selections. I reread my book, and figured they were tweaking it mixing it with later editions.

Atkins 72 is the right plan for me because of this first week. I know exactly what to eat if I ever stop losing or if I get kicked out of ketosis. I don't know why it was ever changed from this wonderful and effective plan.

Aomiel 11-04-2013 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyN (Post 16668290)
I don't know why it was ever changed from this wonderful and effective plan.

This is just my 'opinion' and I'm not going to get into arguments with people over it, but...despite people saying it's because Atkins 'learned' more and adjusted the diet accordingly...I think it had more to do with Atkins becoming less of a diet and more of a 'business' and trying to sell their Atkins products. Plus, many people find '72 restrictive. I think it's only as restrictive as you make it because after induction, you can slowly add carbs back in until you find your CCL...just as the other Atkins plans do (as far as their levels of carbs).

I loved '72 and always lost weight on it. Always struggled with the others and found them less than effective.

Note on the ketostix: They are unreliable and inaccurate. The are more of an indicator of how dehydrated (e.g. urine is concentrated) you are. If you're drinking enough water and your urine is the pale, almost colorless yellow that indicates you are correctly hydrated, your sticks may never turn any shade of purple.

vanilla_latte 11-05-2013 01:20 PM

I think I'm one who was having the second week veggies in the first week, and I have the book! Not having it here with me at the moment, I think the delineation of the weeks isn't clear enough, obviously, to me. I've seen other (old) posts where it apparently wasn't very clear to them either, so I don't feel like such an idiot. :lol:

Honestly, I doubt what veggies I was having was enough to keep me from losing anything, but I may give it another shot. Keeping my carbs at 20 right now isn't working, so what the heck.

meandHIM 11-05-2013 01:33 PM

what is woe?

LadyN 11-05-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanilla_latte (Post 16672009)
I think I'm one who was having the second week veggies in the first week, and I have the book! Not having it here with me at the moment, I think the delineation of the weeks isn't clear enough, obviously, to me. I've seen other (old) posts where it apparently wasn't very clear to them either, so I don't feel like such an idiot. :lol:

Honestly, I doubt what veggies I was having was enough to keep me from losing anything, but I may give it another shot. Keeping my carbs at 20 right now isn't working, so what the heck.

Don't feel bad! I had to read it a few times to understand that the first week was only 2 cups of loosely packed lettuce or cucumbers, radishes or a pickle. That first week really did make a difference for me in terms of really losing well. I was eating about 20 when I started on 72, and I must say that I have really been shrinking since I started following it to a T. I eliminated my stall and still eat well. I know it is more restrictive than the later editions, but I must count total carbs to lose. I can maintain if I count net carbs, but in order for me to lose weight I have to count all the carbs and watch them closely.

LadyN 11-05-2013 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meandHIM (Post 16672034)
what is woe?

Way of Eating

vanilla_latte 11-05-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyN (Post 16672240)
Don't feel bad! I had to read it a few times to understand that the first week was only 2 cups of loosely packed lettuce or cucumbers, radishes or a pickle. That first week really did make a difference for me in terms of really losing well. I was eating about 20 when I started on 72, and I must say that I have really been shrinking since I started following it to a T. I eliminated my stall and still eat well. I know it is more restrictive than the later editions, but I must count total carbs to lose. I can maintain if I count net carbs, but in order for me to lose weight I have to count all the carbs and watch them closely.

Ok, so I'm home now and yes, it is confusing! I have the hard cover book and on pg. 135, the last line concerns the The First Life-Changing Week and to eat nothing that's not on the list. Next two pages have the lists with bolded titles. Then on pg. 138, the rules are listed with the Vegetable and Salad lists directly below that. This is where the confusion comes in I think, at least for me. It's only when I looked at the suggested menus for Level I and compared it with Level II that you can see the vegetables are added then.

That's why I was having avocado on my salad and pumpkin in my shakes!

I may try this again in a couple of days. I'm actually fixing something right now for dinner that has cream cheese in it (hamburger/sausage/cream cheese mix :yummy: ) and it'll take a couple of days to get rid of.

I'll get my ducks in a row and try this out again.

Whyohwh 11-06-2013 05:41 AM

Glad I found this thread. I started the New Revolution at 20 grams of carb a day with not much success, so I started tweaking like mad and researching on the Internet.

I finally read that Atkins 72 says TEN grams of carbs a day. Or zero, now I'm not sure. But how can you do zero with lettuce and eggs? They add up. Lowest I can go is 7.

10Poppies 11-06-2013 10:36 AM

Gosh, this is a very, very helpful (and humbling) thread! I have not been following the plan correctly. I have been relying on my old memory for the details, and what I thought had worked for me before, which is way off from the actual 72 book. I think I must have been getting things mixed up with the newer version.

So this means no avocados or spaghetti squash, zucchini or other veggies I had been using for at least another week. And no more half and half (hwc only). They will be added in later and according to plan.

Going back to the drawing board starting tonight, and doing this plan very strictly week by week.

Also delving into the attic to find my copy of the 72 book and reading it very carefully.

10Poppies 11-06-2013 10:47 AM

This looks like creamy dressings such as ranch or blue cheese are not allowed during the first week - is that correct?

LadyN 11-06-2013 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanilla_latte (Post 16672289)
Ok, so I'm home now and yes, it is confusing! I have the hard cover book and on pg. 135, the last line concerns the The First Life-Changing Week and to eat nothing that's not on the list. Next two pages have the lists with bolded titles. Then on pg. 138, the rules are listed with the Vegetable and Salad lists directly below that. This is where the confusion comes in I think, at least for me. It's only when I looked at the suggested menus for Level I and compared it with Level II that you can see the vegetables are added then.

That's why I was having avocado on my salad and pumpkin in my shakes!

I may try this again in a couple of days. I'm actually fixing something right now for dinner that has cream cheese in it (hamburger/sausage/cream cheese mix :yummy: ) and it'll take a couple of days to get rid of.

I'll get my ducks in a row and try this out again.

I truly understand your confusion!!! I would definitely give it a try for the one week then add back in your pumpkin shake or avocado from there! It really has made such a difference for me! I look forward to reading your results!

LadyN 11-06-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whyohwh (Post 16672853)
Glad I found this thread. I started the New Revolution at 20 grams of carb a day with not much success, so I started tweaking like mad and researching on the Internet.

I finally read that Atkins 72 says TEN grams of carbs a day. Or zero, now I'm not sure. But how can you do zero with lettuce and eggs? They add up. Lowest I can go is 7.

72 is not zero, Dr. Atkins called it biologically zero or as close to zero as you can get. Eggs, lettuce and even meat has some carbs, but those don't prohibit the establishing of ketosis. So if you follow the rules as written, you will be very low around 7 total if you count them all up.

LadyN 11-06-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10Poppies (Post 16673318)
Gosh, this is a very, very helpful (and humbling) thread! I have not been following the plan correctly. I have been relying on my old memory for the details, and what I thought had worked for me before, which is way off from the actual 72 book. I think I must have been getting things mixed up with the newer version.

So this means no avocados or spaghetti squash, zucchini or other veggies I had been using for at least another week. And no more half and half (hwc only). They will be added in later and according to plan.

Going back to the drawing board starting tonight, and doing this plan very strictly week by week.

Also delving into the attic to find my copy of the 72 book and reading it very carefully.

Yes, I did the same thing! I re-read my book and discovered that I was not doing that first week correctly, and when I did it was quite successful! You won't be sorry! It looks very restrictive but it really is quite simple and freeing!!

The second week you add 5-8 grams of whatever you like (low carb of course) and then see how it goes. If you stop losing, you eliminate that food or put it on your maintenance list. You are able to course correct weekly! That is how I found out that tomatoes stall me. I will eat them only for a treat with my salad later on. I have learned so much as I add in carbs this way!

vanilla_latte 11-07-2013 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10Poppies (Post 16673338)
This looks like creamy dressings such as ranch or blue cheese are not allowed during the first week - is that correct?

I don't know about the blue cheese:sick: :D, because it was around back then. I don't remember Ranch being around, but I've seen in some of the older threads in this board where it seems it was given the okay to use. What say LadyN? :)

I love honey mustard, so sometimes I take real mayo, mustard and a little sweetener and use that.

vanilla_latte 11-07-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyN (Post 16673395)
I truly understand your confusion!!! I would definitely give it a try for the one week then add back in your pumpkin shake or avocado from there! It really has made such a difference for me! I look forward to reading your results!

Thanks, LadyN, I am preparing thyself to begin again tomorrow. I will do backflips if doing it correctly gives me some results!

LadyN 11-07-2013 03:02 PM

I stand corrected, no creamy dressings, but you may have:
mustard
horseradish
vinegar
mayo
extracts
dry powdered spice that contains no sugar
juice of one lime or lemon

I am sure your dressing is fine, and I use one similar to your recipe.

LadyN 11-07-2013 03:03 PM

caesar dressing and roquefort are allowed per page 134

Aomiel 11-08-2013 06:34 AM

Yes, the '72 is far less structured than later versions...which may be why people like later versions.

LadyN 11-08-2013 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aomiel (Post 16675758)
Yes, the '72 is far less structured than later versions...which may be why people like later versions.

I guess you could look at it that way. I guess because he doesn't specify WHAT to add each week that makes it a bit less structured. However, I think it is quite structured since he does make it clear HOW MANY carbs to add back each week. 5-8 grams until you reach your ccl. :dunno:

Aomiel 11-08-2013 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyN (Post 16675795)
I guess you could look at it that way. I guess because he doesn't specify WHAT to add each week that makes it a bit less structured. However, I think it is quite structured since he does make it clear HOW MANY carbs to add back each week. 5-8 grams until you reach your ccl. :dunno:

*I* think it's structured for the same reasons you've said, but I've had many people tell me it's not...that it's too open ended and that's why they prefer later versions with the more obvious levels.

MtherGoos 11-10-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aomiel (Post 16670018)
This is just my 'opinion' and I'm not going to get into arguments with people over it, but...despite people saying it's because Atkins 'learned' more and adjusted the diet accordingly...I think it had more to do with Atkins becoming less of a diet and more of a 'business' and trying to sell their Atkins products. Plus, many people find '72 restrictive. I think it's only as restrictive as you make it because after induction, you can slowly add carbs back in until you find your CCL...just as the other Atkins plans do (as far as their levels of carbs).

I loved '72 and always lost weight on it. Always struggled with the others and found them less than effective.

Note on the ketostix: They are unreliable and inaccurate. The are more of an indicator of how dehydrated (e.g. urine is concentrated) you are. If you're drinking enough water and your urine is the pale, almost colorless yellow that indicates you are correctly hydrated, your sticks may never turn any shade of purple.

:goodpost: Absolutely agree with every bit of this.

I think the changes to the Atkins diet over the years was to make it easier for the masses and more marketable. I believe that Dr Atkins firmly believed in the 72 version just as he wrote it and that's the one I follow. Not to say that other versions don't work for other people, but for me, the 72 works without fail and is so simple and easy to follow. I've been on induction for almost 9 months now, and I never have any question about what is or isn't allowed.

10Poppies 11-11-2013 11:23 AM

I don't know why I am so confused by the wording of this:

Quote:

Two small green salads a day (each less than one cupful, loosely packed) made only of leafy greens, celery or cucumbers and radishes.
Do you take this to mean that we can have up to 2 cups of any combination of the named veggies? For example:
- a cup of green salad and a cup of cucumbers
- two cups of green salad
- 1 1/2 cups of green salad topped with 1/2 cup of celery
- two cups of cucumbers
- two cups of celery
- two cups of radishes
- two pickles

Or does it mean we can have a green salad topped with either celery, cucumber and radishes? Or am I overanalyzing lol?

vanilla_latte 11-11-2013 12:52 PM

You're not alone - it confuses me and I've seen it confuse many others in other threads!! I just have lettuce and if DH throws some cukes in his salad, I'll take out a little lettuce and add some cukes if I want them. We don't keep celery or radishes on hand and I refuse to have a pickle in place of a salad. :lol:

I usually have my 2 cups of salad with dinner. So, for me it's either 2 cups of lettuce or 1-3/4 cups lettuce with some cukes.

But being how it's written, I would agree with your conclusions. :)

LadyN 11-11-2013 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10Poppies (Post 16679279)
I don't know why I am so confused by the wording of this:



Do you take this to mean that we can have up to 2 cups of any combination of the named veggies? For example:
- a cup of green salad and a cup of cucumbers
- two cups of green salad
- 1 1/2 cups of green salad topped with 1/2 cup of celery
- two cups of cucumbers
- two cups of celery
- two cups of radishes
- two pickles

Or does it mean we can have a green salad topped with either celery, cucumber and radishes? Or am I overanalyzing lol?

Ok, I am sorry I did not explain that well at all. It is 1C per meal for 2 meals.

For example:

B: bacon eggs coffee with CO
L: Pork roast and 1 cup of loosely packed lettuce and homemade vinagarette.
D: Chicken legs with 1C of cucumber and radish salad made by adding mayo to the vinegarette.

So I hope that sample menu helps!

mjgh06 11-11-2013 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10Poppies (Post 16679279)
I don't know why I am so confused by the wording of this:



Do you take this to mean that we can have up to 2 cups of any combination of the named veggies? For example:
- a cup of green salad and a cup of cucumbers
- two cups of green salad
- 1 1/2 cups of green salad topped with 1/2 cup of celery
- two cups of cucumbers
- two cups of celery
- two cups of radishes
- two pickles

Or does it mean we can have a green salad topped with either celery, cucumber and radishes? Or am I overanalyzing lol?

"Two small green salads a day (each less than one cupful, loosely packed) made only of leafy greens, celery or cucumbers and radishes. Dressings with vinegar, oil, salt, dry spices, herbs, grated cheese, or anchovies. Or else a sour pickle in place of a salad. Plus . . . green olives."

They way I read it from reading through the previous chapters - forget which page but will find it - you are supposed to have, if wanted, at lunch and/or dinner -
Option A: 1cup of salad (leafy greens) topped with celery plus allowed dressing, green olives; or
Option B: 1cup salad (leafy greens) topped with cucumbers and radishes plus allowed dressing, green olives; or
Option C: a sour pickle.

The reason for the leafy greens, and the options as listed is the carb count imo. are because most leafy greens nearly zero out for carbs, same with the option veggies - celery compared to cucumber and radishes almost equal out to near zero. At least that is how my calculators add it up.

Debrat3 11-11-2013 06:06 PM

I just finished my first week of going back to atkins 72 and I lost 7 pounds. I have always lost 5 on induction so I was quite thrilled. I wonder if a person didn't add in additional veggies if the weight would move off faster? I love 72. I was using wayyy too much cream in my coffee and I was just going to give it up and decided to use the 4 tsp. he said was allowed. Its been an adjustment but the payoff has been good.

kempmuhlbauer 11-12-2013 06:55 AM

Great thread. As I have never posted in the '72 section of LCF. I am a strict '72 induction person after reading all the post. Lots of good info here. I do not have the '72 edition, only the DANR. Going to pick up the '72 today. I have been following basically the '72 induction for 3 weeks straight now. I have lost 20 pounds in those 21 days. I did have a off day where I drank beer or other wise could have been more.

I agree that DANR was made to appeal to the masses and that is what I followed the first time I did this WOE.

I just avoid all veggies. Maybe a couple servings of sauteed spinach a week and that is it. And the weight is just falling off. Mjgh06 thanks for starting this thread very informative for those of us who have never read '72.

LolaGetz 11-12-2013 08:36 AM

I too am very grateful for this thread, finding it extremely helpful and educational.


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