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Old 01-24-2013, 06:52 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Biochic View Post
Beeb I'm ao sorry you're struggling that pattern is so difficult or break once it takes hold. I totally understand not knowing what real hunger is I wish I had some helpful hints. Some people really swear by books like brain over binge. It may be worth a read???
Thank you!
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:54 PM   #32
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I didn't know that you bingers were over here... I've been struggling with this for quite a while now and I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. And even when I'm doing well (like now, I'm over two weeks w/o any significant overeating), I feel like I can't and won't ever be able to relax and feel comfortable with it bc if I let my guard down for a minute it seems like the chocolate cake just flows right in. That is probably the worst part of it for me right now, that I feel like I will NEVER be able to feel like this is okay and dealt with. Gah! I just want to find a way to fix the problem and have it behind me, yk?

Anyhow... lately I've been trying to read everything I can get my hands on about diet and biology and psychology and addiction. Right now I'm reading both Brain Over Binge and My Other Body by Ann Pai. They're very different, but I think they're both helpful for me. Brain Over Binge is almost making me wish I was a more hardcore binger (so I could believe her method would work for me). My MO is not to eat 4000 calories as fast as I can with nobody watching, but to just eat loads of super carby high cal foods all day long. And I could do that every day. I'm just never not hungry -- unless I'm eating almost no carbs and barely eating. It's so ironic that the only thing that gives me respite from all this needing to eat is not eating. But I find that I am much better about staying on plan if I only eat once or twice a day and especially if I only eat meat. But then after a while that starts to feel gross and blah... it's probably not the ultimate answer. I don't know if I can maintain it for very long.

Well, I didn't mean to blather on! I was just stopping by to say hello.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:52 AM   #33
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Hi Jayne. Welcome

Take a look at "the diet cure" while your in reading mode. Pretty interesting
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post
I didn't know that you bingers were over here... I've been struggling with this for quite a while now and I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. And even when I'm doing well (like now, I'm over two weeks w/o any significant overeating), I feel like I can't and won't ever be able to relax and feel comfortable with it bc if I let my guard down for a minute it seems like the chocolate cake just flows right in. That is probably the worst part of it for me right now, that I feel like I will NEVER be able to feel like this is okay and dealt with. Gah! I just want to find a way to fix the problem and have it behind me, yk?

Anyhow... lately I've been trying to read everything I can get my hands on about diet and biology and psychology and addiction. Right now I'm reading both Brain Over Binge and My Other Body by Ann Pai. They're very different, but I think they're both helpful for me. Brain Over Binge is almost making me wish I was a more hardcore binger (so I could believe her method would work for me). My MO is not to eat 4000 calories as fast as I can with nobody watching, but to just eat loads of super carby high cal foods all day long. And I could do that every day. I'm just never not hungry -- unless I'm eating almost no carbs and barely eating. It's so ironic that the only thing that gives me respite from all this needing to eat is not eating. But I find that I am much better about staying on plan if I only eat once or twice a day and especially if I only eat meat. But then after a while that starts to feel gross and blah... it's probably not the ultimate answer. I don't know if I can maintain it for very long.

Well, I didn't mean to blather on! I was just stopping by to say hello.
OMG!! It was as if I wrote this myself ^^^^! This is exactly how I feel and never thought of it as an eating disorder until very recently when I realized this is NOT the way normal people usually eat! Like I said, sometimes I just don't even want to start eating for fear of never stopping! I, too start to feel deprived eating LC and VLC never gave me the appetite suppression like it does so many other anyway.

I feel like a hamster at times on a wheel!
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:03 PM   #35
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Why doesn't low carb stop us from binging? Is is me or have we missed something that others have not?
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:14 PM   #36
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Jeanie and Beeb have you ever tracked your protein/ carb/ fat ratios? Maybe fat isn't high enough?? I try to keep about 60% of my calories coming from fat. I also try to keep carbs between 5-10%.
These are the ranges that have worked for me in the past and seem to be working this time around as well.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:22 PM   #37
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I've been having the same problem. I'm under a lot of stress and I don't eat well all day then in the evening I cram 2000 calories into 2 hours or something.

Jeanie: I don't know honestly. I think, if your mind is in the right place, low-carb is probably better geared to prevent it, but if your brain is waging a war on you (so to speak) I don't think the "diet" matters much until you get that part under some sort of control.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:25 PM   #38
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I've been having the same problem. I'm under a lot of stress and I don't eat well all day then in the evening I cram 2000 calories into 2 hours or something.

Jeanie: I don't know honestly. I think, if your mind is in the right place, low-carb is probably better geared to prevent it, but if your brain is waging a war on you (so to speak) I don't think the "diet" matters much until you get that part under some sort of control.
True Dottie. Your mind waging war is a perfect description!
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:57 PM   #39
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Why doesn't low carb stop us from binging? Is is me or have we missed something that others have not?
It doesn't matter what foods I eat, when I want to eat and I'm in the binging mode I eat...LC, VLC, NC or carb!! Makes no difference and NO food stops me, keeps me satisfied or full!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biochic View Post
Jeanie and Beeb have you ever tracked your protein/ carb/ fat ratios? Maybe fat isn't high enough?? I try to keep about 60% of my calories coming from fat. I also try to keep carbs between 5-10%.
These are the ranges that have worked for me in the past and seem to be working this time around as well.
I have tracked, over and over again. The more fat I eat the more I eat! Fat has NEVER kept me full and even when I do LC I still eat carbs with my fat; oatmeal with coconut oil, apple and peanut butter, lean meat and lower carb bread. Just what works for me!
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:05 PM   #40
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I am personally thinking it the words "diet", "restrict", "time limit" and these type of words that are also a trigger for me along with stress, anxiety and boredom.

For some reason in the last 2 days I just said I am NOT on a diet! I will watch my portions, and make a conscience effort to not over eat but I'm not "dieting" anymore; no "organized" diet ways, do this, not that diet ways, don't eat this, eat that diet ways! I'm done with the concept of "diet" and it is really making some headway in my head! I haven't wanted to binge because I am not "watching" anything like being on a diet would have me do so food doesn't matter except to feed me when I'm hungry! Also, I can't "wait" to eat too long if I start to become hungry because then I eat WAY too much, it becomes a binge!!

I'm a work in progress but at least I'm seeing a bit of progress, it seems!!
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeb View Post

I'm a work in progress but at least I'm seeing a bit of progress, it seems!!
Whatever works, do!! Sure sounds like progress!!

I just ordered Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat. I'm Lways looking for my own answers too Beeb. If I knew what the heck I was doing I'd have stayed thin the first, second or third time around

Onward!!!!
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
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Why doesn't low carb stop us from binging? Is is me or have we missed something that others have not?
Is there a connection between bingeing and serotonin? I have read that low-carb can lead to lower serotonin levels; it seems more prevalent in women (personal observations). The answer isn't necessarily high carb, but perhaps moderate carb, and regular servings throughout the day (don't save up all your carbs for one meal). There are also some natural supplements that increase serotonin, like SAM-e.



Since l-glutamine was mentioned earlier--
I buy it in 1- or 2-lb jugs and put a teaspoon (5g) in my water bottle several times a day. I am a lot less interested in food when I take it regularly. I can still eat once I get hungry or start cooking dinner for my son, but I don't snack and it doesn't bother me when people eat "forbidden" foods in front of me (I'm diabetic...l-glut is also supposed to improve insulin sensitivity).
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:13 PM   #43
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Like Linda I have tried all the different ratios as well, doesn't seem to make much difference. High protein keeps me fuller than high fat that I am sure of.

I am not sure about the serotonin piratejenny. My binges seem to happy every three weeks or so and last for about a week, so I think it may be hormonal. I have taken L-glutamine capsules without much effect, but haven't tried the powder. In the past I have taken SSRI's and initially they stop the binges cold, but after a couple of months on them it stops working.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:16 PM   #44
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Hi Jenny. I noticed a decrease interest (or obsession) with food while on glutamine. I haven't taken it in a few weeks now but with ketosis in full swing I no longer feel the need... For now. God knows that can change in a heart beat
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:24 PM   #45
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It's definitely easier & cheaper to get a good dose of l-glut with the powder!

If the SSRIs stopped your binges, even temporarily, maybe serotonin is involved. SAM-e works differently than an SSRI...maybe it would be worth looking into. It has several other health benefits.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:41 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
It's definitely easier & cheaper to get a good dose of l-glut with the powder!

If the SSRIs stopped your binges, even temporarily, maybe serotonin is involved. SAM-e works differently than an SSRI...maybe it would be worth looking into. It has several other health benefits.
I have never taken SSRI meds. I have had recent success with the glutamine, GABA and 5 htp combo.
I feel like that binge feeling is very similar to anxiety for me... Near frenzy or panic if I don't feed the need, ya know? I'm not sure what has helped me manage that over the last 30 days but I have had only 1 episode of feeling that coming on and I was able to work thru it. I still have no answers but I am great full for this month of freedom
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:55 AM   #47
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Hello, please excuse me for butting in. I'm a long-time lurker but reading most of the posts here sounded as if I had written them so I had to post.

I've always been a binger and for the last few years overweight as a result. Last year something clicked and I decided to lose the weight. I did various diets but essentially I cut out all starchy carbs; sugar, bread, pasta, cakes, etc. I would read the ingredient list on all labels and I didn't touch sugar in a year. I figured I was a sugar/carb addict and I needed to treat sugar like a drug I had to abstain from. I lost half my bodyweight and was over the moon!! New wardrobe, wearing shorts and skirts for the first time in years; I was ecstatic, life was good.

Then Christmas/vacation came and I ate more foods (still no starches or sugar) but just more food and probably more sodium. Anyway I had put on a few pounds when I got home and nervous and felt I needed to do something drastic. I had been reading lots of information on the Primal/Paleo Boards and for some stupid reason was convinced I needed to do potato fast to drop those pounds by a carb refeed. MInd you I haven't had potatoes in a year - what the hell was I thinking?

So I started my plain potato fast but by around 4.00pm I started to get the shakes, nervy, anxious and lightheadedness - it looked like a straight out hypo attack. I stopped the potato fast immediately and decided it was not for me.

I don't normally eat a big breakfast because that seems to stimulate my appetite but the next morning I was ravenous so I made a huge serving of bacon and eggs - still hungry and thenthat was it; the floodgates had opened. I couldn't stop eating - good foods but I couldn't stop i.e. chicken, cheese, lots of milky coffees, avocado and then I felt so bad I raced to the supermarket and bought a huge bag of mixed nuts and licorice/chocolate and had my first sugar in a year. It then became a frenzy, I returned to the shop for another bag of nuts and chocolate licorice. (Nuts and choc lic being the main foods I missed whilst dieting).

My mind knew what was happening but the body had taken over...there was no distraction or motivational talk I could have done to stop it; I was like a demented zombie with only one aim..to stuff as much of the choc/nuts in my mouth; I felt as if I was drugged. I was so bloated and miserable, but as soon as my stomach felt better, I would still eat something else. I was totally out of control.

The next morning there was a weight gain of course and I tried to get back on track, but then the binges started every few days after that and I am currently battling these monsters. When I'm good, I'm good; but when I'm in that binge mindset I can't stop. Of course I have gained and now I'm in this miserable state of mind and yo-yo-ing between eating on track a few days and then bingeing again; getting more miserable with the lack of control and weight gain; and am finding it so hard to get on top of this.

My point is that these binges are like nothing I've experienced in the past. Secondly, my suspicion is that the potato fast somehow was the catalyst. Did my insulin go through the roof after not having carbs for so long? If so, why is it continuing? Why don't a few days of being clean break the cycle? It's like I've had a brain snap.

I'm sorry this is so long but if anyone could give me some advice as to how I can handle this or who may have experienced anything similar I would really appreciate it.

Last edited by mojocat; 01-27-2013 at 03:59 AM..
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:34 AM   #48
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Hey never mind.. I just found the 30 day binge challenge thread and reading some great posts. I feel like I'm home
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:02 AM   #49
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Hey mojo-

I'm so sorry you're struggling to get back on track. You were right in thinking of sugar/ starch as a drug at least in the case of bingers. One taste and we are sliding down the slippery slope. No different from the alcoholic or drug addict. We cannot have a taste without risking relaspe
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:47 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratejenny View Post
It's definitely easier & cheaper to get a good dose of l-glut with the powder!

If the SSRIs stopped your binges, even temporarily, maybe serotonin is involved. SAM-e works differently than an SSRI...maybe it would be worth looking into. It has several other health benefits.
Thanks Jenny. I'll look into these supplements.
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:52 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by mojocat View Post
Hello, please excuse me for butting in. I'm a long-time lurker but reading most of the posts here sounded as if I had written them so I had to post.

I've always been a binger and for the last few years overweight as a result. Last year something clicked and I decided to lose the weight. I did various diets but essentially I cut out all starchy carbs; sugar, bread, pasta, cakes, etc. I would read the ingredient list on all labels and I didn't touch sugar in a year. I figured I was a sugar/carb addict and I needed to treat sugar like a drug I had to abstain from. I lost half my bodyweight and was over the moon!! New wardrobe, wearing shorts and skirts for the first time in years; I was ecstatic, life was good.

Then Christmas/vacation came and I ate more foods (still no starches or sugar) but just more food and probably more sodium. Anyway I had put on a few pounds when I got home and nervous and felt I needed to do something drastic. I had been reading lots of information on the Primal/Paleo Boards and for some stupid reason was convinced I needed to do potato fast to drop those pounds by a carb refeed. MInd you I haven't had potatoes in a year - what the hell was I thinking?

So I started my plain potato fast but by around 4.00pm I started to get the shakes, nervy, anxious and lightheadedness - it looked like a straight out hypo attack. I stopped the potato fast immediately and decided it was not for me.

I don't normally eat a big breakfast because that seems to stimulate my appetite but the next morning I was ravenous so I made a huge serving of bacon and eggs - still hungry and thenthat was it; the floodgates had opened. I couldn't stop eating - good foods but I couldn't stop i.e. chicken, cheese, lots of milky coffees, avocado and then I felt so bad I raced to the supermarket and bought a huge bag of mixed nuts and licorice/chocolate and had my first sugar in a year. It then became a frenzy, I returned to the shop for another bag of nuts and chocolate licorice. (Nuts and choc lic being the main foods I missed whilst dieting).

My mind knew what was happening but the body had taken over...there was no distraction or motivational talk I could have done to stop it; I was like a demented zombie with only one aim..to stuff as much of the choc/nuts in my mouth; I felt as if I was drugged. I was so bloated and miserable, but as soon as my stomach felt better, I would still eat something else. I was totally out of control.

The next morning there was a weight gain of course and I tried to get back on track, but then the binges started every few days after that and I am currently battling these monsters. When I'm good, I'm good; but when I'm in that binge mindset I can't stop. Of course I have gained and now I'm in this miserable state of mind and yo-yo-ing between eating on track a few days and then bingeing again; getting more miserable with the lack of control and weight gain; and am finding it so hard to get on top of this.

My point is that these binges are like nothing I've experienced in the past. Secondly, my suspicion is that the potato fast somehow was the catalyst. Did my insulin go through the roof after not having carbs for so long? If so, why is it continuing? Why don't a few days of being clean break the cycle? It's like I've had a brain snap.

I'm sorry this is so long but if anyone could give me some advice as to how I can handle this or who may have experienced anything similar I would really appreciate it.

I could have written most of this myself, except I only managed 6 months w/o a binge. I didn't eat anything that may have been a catalyst, I just remember feeling very anxious, depressed and edgy and then the floodgates opened. It has been 2 years and while I sometimes manage a month or two w/o a binge it is rare. I don't know how to break the cycle for good
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:47 AM   #52
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Mojo I tried to do a potato day twice and both times I had low blood sugar issues! I was checking it with my meter every few hours and it never spiked (I think it went to 112 about 2 hours after eating 4 red potatoes for lunch) but it did drop drastically into the low 60s late in the day, which caused shakiness and light headedness and serious cravings.
So, like so many things, it may be great for some people (we have several that can do it successfully) but not for me.
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:35 PM   #53
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Thank you all so much for your speedy responses. I spent half the night reading the bingeing theads here and the links people provided ie brain over binge. I feel so much relieved there are people out there just like me. I've picked up a few ideas and am so much more motivated to control this.

Actually I wasn't quite honest before, I gobbled down the jumbo packet of nuts and choc licorice balls while driving home and finished just before I got home and then turned around and got more packets so I could enjoy them at home lying on the couch (mind you this is very secretive I don't do it around family).

What I have discovered from reading all your posts and doing some self-analyzing is 1) I'm not hungry when this happens - the goal is to cram as much of the forbidden food down my throat that is possible; and then some. It is some kind of primitive feast/famine business 2) I think it's some kind of reward system for me - it's always a trigger food that I associate with pleasure - and distractions like painting my nails/having a bath/calling a friend etc just don't cut it, although maybe I don't try hard enough - it's like I just surrender willingly to the lower brain after a short half-hearted mental battle and 3) looking back at my food diary it seems I eat cheese the day before the binge - cheese is something I also avoided only because it's a high reward food for me like nuts that I can't control but have added into maintenance.

I also think I have OCD issues in some parts of my life and this could be a factor. I plan to read the Julia Ross book re the amino acids. At this stage, I'm going to take one day at a time to try and eat like a "normal" person with the full knowledge that the third or fourth days could be a problem and maybe planning some high protein/high fat/no carb days to get the sugar out of my system and control this beast. As they say - being fat is hard; dieting is hard.....choose your hard. Besides I gave away my fat clothes and spent a fortune on a new skinny wardrobe - that's my incentive.

**Just a footnote - I read on some of the threads how some people craved salt-sugar-salt-sugar during a binge. That's interesting because my craved binge foods are salty nuts and chocolate licorice balls so next time I plan on literally sucking a lemon - maybe the bitterness will offset the salt/sugar.

Last edited by mojocat; 01-27-2013 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:49 PM   #54
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:05 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
I've been having the same problem. I'm under a lot of stress and I don't eat well all day then in the evening I cram 2000 calories into 2 hours or something.

Jeanie: I don't know honestly. I think, if your mind is in the right place, low-carb is probably better geared to prevent it, but if your brain is waging a war on you (so to speak) I don't think the "diet" matters much until you get that part under some sort of control.
I often think my mind is in the right place, but not for long these days. I see myself doing exactly what my mother did to herself. Her type 2 diabetes over the years went on to cause many other health problems yet she kept on eating the carbs. At the time I could not for the life of me understand how she could continue to eat in a way that she knew was harming her health. Strokes, high blood pressure, blocked carotid artery and hosts of other problems. She would be scared straight so to speak for sometime after such events, but would soon be back to eating the carbs. She is now insulin dependent and eats better than she ever has but still eats her share of carbs regularly. I understand her better now, but feel more guilt because I know carbs are harmful to my health yet still don't change, while she never and still doesn't really believe in the low carb woe.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:48 PM   #56
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Has everyone here read Brain Over Binge?

It's interesting.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:52 PM   #57
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Jes
I read it and sold it back to Amazon. It did seem to help me for a while, but started back binging soon after. As I recall she states that part of her recovery was based on not dieting/restricting food. I guess if you don't have weight to lose that could work.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:18 PM   #58
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Hello, please excuse me for butting in. I'm a long-time lurker but reading most of the posts here sounded as if I had written them so I had to post.

I've always been a binger and for the last few years overweight as a result. Last year something clicked and I decided to lose the weight. I did various diets but essentially I cut out all starchy carbs; sugar, bread, pasta, cakes, etc. I would read the ingredient list on all labels and I didn't touch sugar in a year. I figured I was a sugar/carb addict and I needed to treat sugar like a drug I had to abstain from. I lost half my bodyweight and was over the moon!! New wardrobe, wearing shorts and skirts for the first time in years; I was ecstatic, life was good.

Then Christmas/vacation came and I ate more foods (still no starches or sugar) but just more food and probably more sodium. Anyway I had put on a few pounds when I got home and nervous and felt I needed to do something drastic. I had been reading lots of information on the Primal/Paleo Boards and for some stupid reason was convinced I needed to do potato fast to drop those pounds by a carb refeed. MInd you I haven't had potatoes in a year - what the hell was I thinking?

So I started my plain potato fast but by around 4.00pm I started to get the shakes, nervy, anxious and lightheadedness - it looked like a straight out hypo attack. I stopped the potato fast immediately and decided it was not for me.

I don't normally eat a big breakfast because that seems to stimulate my appetite but the next morning I was ravenous so I made a huge serving of bacon and eggs - still hungry and thenthat was it; the floodgates had opened. I couldn't stop eating - good foods but I couldn't stop i.e. chicken, cheese, lots of milky coffees, avocado and then I felt so bad I raced to the supermarket and bought a huge bag of mixed nuts and licorice/chocolate and had my first sugar in a year. It then became a frenzy, I returned to the shop for another bag of nuts and chocolate licorice. (Nuts and choc lic being the main foods I missed whilst dieting).

My mind knew what was happening but the body had taken over...there was no distraction or motivational talk I could have done to stop it; I was like a demented zombie with only one aim..to stuff as much of the choc/nuts in my mouth; I felt as if I was drugged. I was so bloated and miserable, but as soon as my stomach felt better, I would still eat something else. I was totally out of control.

The next morning there was a weight gain of course and I tried to get back on track, but then the binges started every few days after that and I am currently battling these monsters. When I'm good, I'm good; but when I'm in that binge mindset I can't stop. Of course I have gained and now I'm in this miserable state of mind and yo-yo-ing between eating on track a few days and then bingeing again; getting more miserable with the lack of control and weight gain; and am finding it so hard to get on top of this.

My point is that these binges are like nothing I've experienced in the past. Secondly, my suspicion is that the potato fast somehow was the catalyst. Did my insulin go through the roof after not having carbs for so long? If so, why is it continuing? Why don't a few days of being clean break the cycle? It's like I've had a brain snap.

I'm sorry this is so long but if anyone could give me some advice as to how I can handle this or who may have experienced anything similar I would really appreciate it.
Right here with you!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:46 AM   #59
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I'm feeling so somewhat defeated I definitely over ate yesterday- not binging but more food and trips to the kitchen than I have had in the past 30 days. All legal stuff but too much of it. I could have slipped over the edge but I was mindful of my thoughts.

In trying to determine what caused the almost issue I think the small amount of sauce in the zuppe di pesce I had on Saturday night was the catalyst. Restaurant sauce must have had sugar in it. Yesterday at my in law's I had meat that was cooked in the pasta sauce. It was the cleanest choice available but again they may have added sugar to it. I do not have a problem with tomatoes normally
Now I'm afraid to get on the scale

No matter how many days I string together, I am a slave to that damn scale thank god ill be at work all day. I can't screw up there!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:49 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
Jes
I read it and sold it back to Amazon. It did seem to help me for a while, but started back binging soon after. As I recall she states that part of her recovery was based on not dieting/restricting food. I guess if you don't have weight to lose that could work.
Yes, that is one critical flaw in that book. The part that resonated with me, however, was the part about about the power of habit and how our neural pathways "learn" to binge eat every time we binge. And the longer we go without binge eating, the stronger our mental "muscle" is to not binge eat.

I think, however, the best approach is a combo of behavior modification and avoiding addictive foods.
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