Filling the void without food - July -

[brilliant100]

Hi Magna !!!!! So nice to see you again

[chipmunkis]

I had never dieted a day in my life, and had a serious problem with binging on carbs, particularly bread. I could literally sit down and eat an entire loaf in one sitting, even though it made me feel physically sick to do so. I could NOT stop myself. It wasn't until I found Atkins and then at about the same time, discovered that i was allergic to wheat, that i was able to stop this.

It just seems to me to be a bit of a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" sort of thing. there isn't any way to know.

[momof3heathens]

Starting over again tommorow. I do think that I have an issue with salt as someone had mentioned. I don't salt my foods but I do see that most if not all of my food choices are salty.

[momov2boys]

It is a new day for me, too!

I know that abstaining from PB is what is best for me.
I hate that I've been unsuccessful at doing so for, like, 10 months.

Well, I'm just going to keep in trying until I am successful at abstaining.

It's just food.
If I cannot live without eating this one freaking glob of calories, well then...I am not living.

I am choosing to live.
Starting right now.

*No more PB!

TGIF
Happy Day Everyone!!!

[magnamater]

Thanks you my compadres here, for keeping the dialogue going about whatever demon/s each of us have.

I am so "enthralled" now by what is happening to a thread that first ANGERED me so much, but I kept reading. . .over at the KK place. Hope you know what I'm referring to.

Never have posted there, when I finally wanted to open up about ED I came back here--kind of my ED home.

Now I'm wanting to talk/share about "learned behavior" early in childhood from significant people.

Do any of you relate?

My DM, now dead 26 years, was neither saint nor sinner completely, but she definitely had food issues.

She was EXTREMELY thin after being an overweight child.

She was a total control freak of what went into her mouth. She didn't talk about it, but it was "there."

And this is the key. . .she had the backup story all my life that when she ate "rich" food or too much, it made her throw up.

I now suspect, but of course, can't confirm. . .she was bulimic.

I also had 2 other significant females in my life, an aunt (DM's only sister) who had a weight problem, and had a million diets to teach me, including some use of laxatives. . .

And a grandmother, very thin, who used laxatives as a weight control method.

THANKS GOD I have never used the laxatives. . .but probably because I live a life prone to "rampant diarreah" and sorry if that's TMI!

NOW, about the "control" issues. . .I think because my DM was into control so strongly (and I tended to think of this as STRENGTH) I have some control issues.

Hey, I'll share all my mistakes later, they could be a book. . .

But I wanted to talk about the most significant person in my life, who, and the balance is all good, left me with somethings not listed in the "will!"

Suffice it to say I gained major weight while she was dying (living with us) and after her death.

Whew!

That was a painful post. For me.

[chipmunkis]

Originally Posted by magnamater

Now I'm wanting to talk/share about "learned behavior" early in childhood from significant people.


...That was a painful post. For me.

(edited by me for space...)

I just wanted to say that wow, my heart goes out to you there were a lot of issues in my home growing up, but ED weren't among them...it sounds like a very painful realization, coming to understand that your DM had one.

[magnamater]

Yes, chipmukis, it is painful, and it took me years to put words to my dark thoughts about someone I love very much and who taught me huge numbers of good things.

Yep, there was good and bad, and I'm sure I passed those extremes to my kids in some ways too.

But in relationship to my unhealthy relationship with food, I can now see where some of the problems started.

Of course I will not unburden here as I might in therapy if I was rich enough and brave enough to go.

But the control issue, that's about the biggest for me (whether it is "controlling" my food by anorexic behavior or by bingeing, where food seems to have some control.)

Yikes, reading back over that part in parentheses tells me why I easily fell prey to anorexic type behavior off and on all my life. . .I gotta do some soul searching on that.

Maybe I should save my pennies and invest in some counseling. . .although it would go against the grain in my household--DH doesn't believe in it in any way. . .

Thanks for letting me vent!

[chipmunkis]

Originally Posted by magnamater

Yes, chipmukis, it is painful, and it took me years to put words to my dark thoughts about someone I love very much and who taught me huge numbers of good things.

Yep, there was good and bad, and I'm sure I passed those extremes to my kids in some ways too.

But in relationship to my unhealthy relationship with food, I can now see where some of the problems started.

Of course I will not unburden here as I might in therapy if I was rich enough and brave enough to go.

But the control issue, that's about the biggest for me (whether it is "controlling" my food by anorexic behavior or by bingeing, where food seems to have some control.)

Yikes, reading back over that part in parentheses tells me why I easily fell prey to anorexic type behavior off and on all my life. . .I gotta do some soul searching on that.

Maybe I should save my pennies and invest in some counseling. . .although it would go against the grain in my household--DH doesn't believe in it in any way. . .

Thanks for letting me vent!

I was fortunate enough about 12 years ago to have an opportunity to be involved in a counseling program for women only, which, because it was new, was free if you qualified.

I honestly didn't believe in it, myself, because of a previous very negative experience in which my sister and I saw the "professionals" blame everyone but the abuser for his behaviour.

I was at the end of my rope though and knew I was falling apart (serious PTSD, which I also had thought was a load of bs...), so I decided to give it a shot...and I am so glad I did. I ended up with a terrific counselor who believe in helping ME to figure it all out, rather than throwing out pat answers and psychobabble.

Whatever happens I do hope you are able to find a way to figure it out and eventually be really "ok"

[steady]

Originally Posted by magnamater

Now I'm wanting to talk/share about "learned behavior" early in childhood from significant people.

Do any of you relate?

My DM, now dead 26 years, was neither saint nor sinner completely, but she definitely had food issues.

She was EXTREMELY thin after being an overweight child.

She was a total control freak of what went into her mouth. She didn't talk about it, but it was "there."

And this is the key. . .she had the backup story all my life that when she ate "rich" food or too much, it made her throw up.

I now suspect, but of course, can't confirm. . .she was bulimic.

I also had 2 other significant females in my life, an aunt (DM's only sister) who had a weight problem, and had a million diets to teach me, including some use of laxatives. . .

And a grandmother, very thin, who used laxatives as a weight control method.

THANKS GOD I have never used the laxatives. . .but probably because I live a life prone to "rampant diarreah" and sorry if that's TMI!

NOW, about the "control" issues. . .I think because my DM was into control so strongly (and I tended to think of this as STRENGTH) I have some control issues.

That was a painful post. For me.

Wow Magnamater:
Your post really hit home for me. You really dug so deep....

I certainly agree. I learned disordered eating behavior early in my childhood from DM. I don't blame DM for my eating/diet/food obsession issues now, but I cannot deny that I imitated her and couldn't ignore her comments about my weight.

By no means did DM have serious weight issues, but losing 10-15 lbs would be "healthy" as well as flattering. As a young girl, I knew DM was always on a diet, but I would often see her binge. At the time, I thought she was just very hungry as she would continue to eat after we had all left the dinner table. DM would constantly binge and fast...I only realized this later as I saw this in myself.

To complicate matters more, my older DSs began putting on a little weight, DM would comments/criticized DSs to lose a few lbs (they weren't fat, just filled out). DSs were 5 and 10 yrs older than me. Not wanting to have to diet like my DSs and not wanting to hear criticism from or disappoint DM too, I put myself on a diet at the tender age of 9. I mimicked DM and DSs diet and eating patterns. From that point on dieting/food/exercise has consumed my life, not to mention also DM's and DSs'.

When I gained a bit of weight in college, DM criticized me too. It hurt, but it was her way of formally inducting me into her world of dieting/bingeing/excising WOL.

Do I have a ED? I would have to say, "Yes."
Do DSs? Yes. Does DM? Yes. We all know it, but we won't acknowledge it to each other.


Regarding control:

DM likes control. To this day, DM will either starved me or admonished me when she thinks I am "fat", or she will feed/tempt me with junk when I appear in control of my weight and diet.

Futhermore, just like DM, discipline over food and being thin displays an image of control, and bingeing in private happens when we feel "out of control" or like temporarily "relinquishing control". It is a cycle DM and I both live...I am not sure about DSs, but I highly suspect. But I am choosing to change my ways.

I feel EDs are common, but as complex and unique as the individual. Therefore each one of us needs our own plan to recovery. My plan is to avoid, prevent, and interrupt binges through behavior modification, identifying triggers, and dissection of feeling. So far, it is working.

[steady]

[quote=momov2boys;8906327]It is a new day for me, too!

I know that abstaining from PB is what is best for me.


*No more PB!
[quote]

Take it step by step Girl!!! You don't eat PB anymore! Don't make excuses. Don't let it control you. Don't give in. YOU CAN DO IT!!!

[momov2boys]

Originally Posted by steady

Take it step by step Girl!!! You don't eat PB anymore! Don't make excuses. Don't let it control you. Don't give in.
YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Thank you SO much for posting this, Steady.
I really and truly appreciate your support and encouragement!

And {{{hugs}}} to all posters here.
I think we are brave for being open and honest.
I believe that it is good for us to share our truths.

Here's to helping one another!

[magnamater]

Originally Posted by steady

Wow Magnamater:
Your post really hit home for me. You really dug so deep....

I certainly agree. I learned disordered eating behavior early in my childhood from DM. I don't blame DM for my eating/diet/food obsession issues now, but I cannot deny that I imitated her and couldn't ignore her comments about my weight.

By no means did DM have serious weight issues, but losing 10-15 lbs would be "healthy" as well as flattering. As a young girl, I knew DM was always on a diet, but I would often see her binge. At the time, I thought she was just very hungry as she would continue to eat after we had all left the dinner table. DM would constantly binge and fast...I only realized this later as I saw this in myself.

To complicate matters more, my older DSs began putting on a little weight, DM would comments/criticized DSs to lose a few lbs (they weren't fat, just filled out). DSs were 5 and 10 yrs older than me. Not wanting to have to diet like my DSs and not wanting to hear criticism from or disappoint DM too, I put myself on a diet at the tender age of 9. I mimicked DM and DSs diet and eating patterns. From that point on dieting/food/exercise has consumed my life, not to mention also DM's and DSs'.

When I gained a bit of weight in college, DM criticized me too. It hurt, but it was her way of formally inducting me into her world of dieting/bingeing/excising WOL.

Do I have a ED? I would have to say, "Yes."
Do DSs? Yes. Does DM? Yes. We all know it, but we won't acknowledge it to each other.


Regarding control:

DM likes control. To this day, DM will either starved me or admonished me when she thinks I am "fat", or she will feed/tempt me with junk when I appear in control of my weight and diet.

Futhermore, just like DM, discipline over food and being thin displays an image of control, and bingeing in private happens when we feel "out of control" or like temporarily "relinquishing control". It is a cycle DM and I both live...I am not sure about DSs, but I highly suspect. But I am choosing to change my ways.

I feel EDs are common, but as complex and unique as the individual. Therefore each one of us needs our own plan to recovery. My plan is to avoid, prevent, and interrupt binges through behavior modification, identifying triggers, and dissection of feeling. So far, it is working.

Hugs.

You hit some very valid points. And through all of that I could feel your pain.

This in no way takes away from some of the good things your or my DM imparted, but one thing jumped off the screen at me.

"DM likes control. To this day, DM will either starved me or admonished me when she thinks I am "fat", or she will feed/tempt me with junk when I appear in control of my weight and diet. "

1. The control. . .wow!
2. It's almost like she is in competition with you, and if you "loose control" she gains control or "tops/bests" you. I've heard mother/daughters can be like that.

Well, at the end of the day, no matter where we get our "junk," we are responsible for what we do about it.

I do have food issues. HUGE ones. I hope to get to a liveable place, and I do think some of the things here at LCF is helping. However, I'm in a fairly "good" place right now. . .when things are sliding, well, I don't know what helps.

And I don't know why I have different coping mechanisms that work sometimes and others they haven't in the past. Wish I knew. (maybe it's back to the control--sometimes I have it, other times, nope.)

Thanks for posting and sharing. I obviously know how painful it is.

[kviolette]

Originally Posted by steady

...bingeing in private happens when we feel "out of control" or like temporarily "relinquishing control".

This is what jumped out at me - not the feeling out of control but feeling like temporarily relinquishing control. That really echoes inside my soul - it IS a choice I make, one to completely immerse myself in the element (often PB), to completely let go. I suppose it is similar to the self abuse others inflict (like self mutilation); the relief of letting go, letting it happen, letting it wash over me.

I too have history - I was told from a very young age that I was overweight (pictures do NOT support this) but no one helped me figure out what to eat. They simply didn't know. My dad was the culprit however, not my mom. My dad was the one who inhaled his food, who was fat, who was cruel to me about my (mythical) excess weight. Who would comment on my eating, yell at me for it but then was nothing else but this scary person. I spent a lot of time at my home in the summer, isolated from people my own age (I did not go to high school where my parents lived...a long story), no interaction with the family, and I ate.

I also believe there must be a bio-chemical addictive process going on in my brain with peanut butter to make that specific food so overwhelming. Rebecca -I think you share this with me, a physical response to the food much like alcohol to the alcoholic's brain.

I cannot seem to get to a place where I eat less right now. I don't know if it is fallout from being home with the kids; from not working a regular schedule (I was at a garden center until April 1; long story....) and thus being isolated.

I do have to control my behavior very tightly when I am with the kids. I did not learn proper parenting as a child (lots of verbal/physical abuse growing up) and have vowed NOT to have that as a legacy for my own children. It's not that I want to be abusive; it's that I must use all my cognitive powers to be a kind, gentle and safe mother. It does work; I can be the mother that I want to be but

....IT....IS....EXHAUSTING....

My boys deserve so much in this life and I feel that I fall short. By letting go with the peanut butter, using that as my venue for relinquishing control, I am more able to be that mother.

I thought things would be better with the kids being in school but maybe I need more decompression time.

This is the kind of discussion I have been looking and longing for. Thank you for sharing and making this a place I can share.

For us all:

[magnamater]

Very thoughtful post, Kath, and I want to quote you here:

"feeling like temporarily relinquishing control" because it rang true for me, but guess what. . .I see hope in your statement. . .because even if it is an unconscious act, you are making it conscious now and helping me make it conscious. . .and THEN. . .

Maybe we won't relinquish control, because we are more conscious of the choice--that moment. And we can choose differently, if we make ourselves conscious.

What do you think? Can we work on that?

I see something to work on myself.

[magnamater]

And Kathy, congratulations on the choices you have made for you boys. That's powerful!

[momof3heathens]

Did pretty good today considering my poor choices of these past few days. I too have been following the kimmer thread and it has given me some things to think about.

I am worried that I am setting the kids up for some of the more extreme behaviors concerning having a healthy attitude towards food. I find myself critiquing their food choices constantly but part of the reason why is get tired of hearing them complain about how they can't fit into this outfit or that outfit or my son who doesn't even go out in public unless he is wearing a hoodie even in the extreme heat. For the most part 90% of the time they eat very healthy/lowcarb at home but are constantly around high carb choices at their friends, etc. So even with the better choices at home it feels kind of redundant to even bother when they are also eating high carb/high fat combinations regularly elsewhere.

The kids are more out of shape than overweight. Even with the running around they do and they do lots as we don't have a car so the kids walk everywhere they still have slight bellies.

My mom had me on all kinds of diets when I was younger but I don't really remember her saying anything mean spirited about my weight but in hindsight I do now think I was out of shape rather than fat. I remember filling out a little questionaire in grade 4 about weight control from a booklet we had gotten from the pharmacy and said my weight was 92lbs. Well both of the girls weigh more than that but I would never in a million years consider them to be the size I imagined myself to be.

It really is hard to say. I was so unpopular as a child due to my weight so probably saw myself more than I actually was. My girls are very popular(something I am actually having problems understanding the ins and outs of) and none of their friends ever saying anything mean about them at all.

[luckiangel]

Our kids are pretty much the same however they are the ones who watch what they eat. We used to critique their choices when they were young. We thought we were just making sure they knew the difference between healthy and not so healthy but we didn't deprive them of things either. The would choose to eat celerey and carrots over cake and cookies. No matter how much we pushed the cakes and cookies they didn't want them so we just let them choose. WE thought they were underweight and while the drs agreed they also said that they would catch up. I think they are finally catching up but we don't worry so much about what they get away from us. I believe they have the skills to build a balanced meal and when they get to that point in life when they need to they will know how. Right now they burn off almost everything they eat. They all have that little belly too. I am sure they could stand to be more fit....they don't exercise like they should but they certainly are on the go!! I don't think we have ever told them what they shouldn't eat as much as we have stressed what foods are healthier. They do eat LC but we give them a bit more starchy foods than we eat. They like the choices from LC and I won't discourage them but when they get too LC then we tell them what else to eat. I think alot of our attitudes about foods comes from our upbringing and the way our parents and grandparents made and served food. We are Italian and let me tell you how food flowed through our house!!! I think for me that is what I am dealing with. There was always plenty of food to go around but it was used as a scale of aptitude as well. If you pulled off a family function and no one had anything bad to say about your spread then you were on top, but watch out because the next person to have a family function was going to out do you.
As a kid we were told to wipe the platter clean......something i still find myself doing from time to time but feeling more and more secure if i have to leave a little bit! In our house food was the i love you....no one ever said it but the food was there to prove it. It was a big joke that even if you weren't hungry if you were Italian you ate anyway.....and there is the set up!!!!! It's a pretty hard habit to break. I grew up believing if i could bake the best cake or pie or create the most extravagant meal I had to be loveable. Something my ex dh proved wrong cuz he hated everything i made unless it was his mom's recipes. What an act to follow. I have found with my kids by letting them make their own choices with certain limitations and teaching them that there is a time and a place for the things they want they don't want them as often. I can't tell you how much candy we throw away at halloween, christmas, bday parties.....they just don't eat it. THey a few pieces and then it's over. We tell them that the food in the house is for evereyone, if you are hungry eat it. I guess we lucked out. It's amazing how much we've learned about ourselves and our patterns by watchin our kids. I think it is more fun to watch them get excited because we made mock potatoes than the make a meal we FEEL they will like because we want to show how much we love them. Now we make meals out of love because we know they will enjoy it.....much different than making meals our of loving them...(i don't know if that came out the way i wanted it to.......anyway.....) thanks for bringing the topic up...really got me thinking........

[kviolette]

Lucki - one of my kids will eat celery or broccoli right out of the package. He has even been know to 'sneak' celery! The other one used to avoid sweets as a young child but at age 10, he definitely has learned to love sweets. Neither have any extra meat on them - muscle-ly guys they are. We too are fortunate that they are healthy and do not have eating issues.

I know about the clean-plate syndrome! We don't pursue that for a second around here now. My kids have no problem not eating something and leaving it on their plate.

How old are your kids? My boys are 10 and 8.

Magna - You are right about becoming aware and using that awareness to make different choices. I have the awareness and, right now, still choose to eat. The will to make different choices, that's where I am having trouble right now. Valuing myself and my body to make better choices, that's the issue right now. Every bite of carbs I take is another step towards full blown diabetes and, for whatever reason, I just don't care enough to make changes. This is after caring enough for over two years to make very strong changes. The isolation I experience these days plays a role, I am sure.

I too see things for me to work on myself...it's just choosing to do so.

An example: it is beautiful and a nice 76deg this morning in Raleigh in July () and I can choose to go outside and work in my garden, putter, work on my fall plant sale material OR I can choose to get the boys to do some cleaning around the house. The first would be very self-fulfilling and satisfying and would feel wonderful. The second would be an investment in my boys' character and their life skills which is incredibly important AND, in the long run, will help keep up the house (another VERY important thing for my mental health). So, I will work with the boys and go outside later (when it will be closer to 90). A choice, yes. One that I want to make, no.

It's like I use up my not-favorite choices on the boys and have no extra energy to continue making these not-so-favorite choices.


Momov - to you and your childhood. So glad to hear that your kids are well liked. Better than the alternative. I have to go work with the boys but I wanted to let you know that I read your post. Time for deeper discussion will have to be later.

[steady]

Originally Posted by magnamater

Hugs.

It's almost like she is in competition with you, and if you "loose control" she gains control or "tops/bests" you. I've heard mother/daughters can be like that.

.

I have lots of love and have lots of respect for my DM, but she is in competition with me. However, I know her competitive behavior is because of her ED. So I don't hold it against her.

These feelings would normally erupt in a binge for me, but writing it out was much more therapeutic and effective. Thanks for helping me work through it.

[luckiangel]

well i actually have two sets of kids..my own and the ones i share! my kids are girls 21 and 17....they live back east with their dad. my 21 yr old spent some time with me tho a few yrs ago and she does pretty well with her choices. The kids here are soon to be 16, soon to be 15 and 13. They do have a few issues with food because we still find sometimes that if they are hungry they won't say anything or eat anything...sometimes i think they HAVE to wait until a meal is on the table but they are getting better about it. For the most part they eat good things.....i'd love to follow them outside the house tho just to see what they have at their friends house!!!

[magnamater]

steady, I hope you understand that I am not questioning your (or my own) love and respect for you DM. Don't misunderstand me, I am just on a quest to find out why I have tendencies.

And I have work to do! On figuring it all out.

I ate out last night. . .had shrimp stuffed with cheese and seafood, wrapped in bacon--then deep fried but not breaded. . .with sauted veggies. I ate every bite!!!! I was demonstrating to myself and my DH that I can have a normal meal. Of course the scales jumped up this a.m. but my feet were so swollen, I knew it would be that way. Salt? Probably!

Anyway, I also amended my sig to exerercise 4 days a week, and didn't specify time. I would be failing, because I'm now not doing 5 days a week, it isn't very practical to do every day.

So I'm working on my little probs. . .

With the exercise, it is difficult because I need the exercise. . .but I don't want to get obsessive. . .and I was. . .because I had the time off for summer. School year is much more difficult. . .but I need the habits.

Best of luck with your kiddos. . .mine are grown and outside my influence.

[magnamater]

sorry bout the double post