Alcohol Problems - Page 11

lisayak · 02-21-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanutte

Its just that I have a pretty appealing personality and am not shy. And I'm funny. All these things make me a Star in group settings.

I'm not surprised!

I think these qualities shine through on the boards as well.

I'm reminded of my university reference, written by my student advisor. He wrote that I was "socially confident", and I immediately quipped "yeah, and inwardly terrified!"

And I definitely relate to seejay about the masks...I have a bag of them, and I'm pushing myself to learn to leave them in the d**n bag!

peanutte · 02-21-2007, 05:23 PM

Thanks for your nice words, Lisa! Believe me, I am not saying that to be braggy...I mentioned something to my best friend back home about wanting to have some one-on-one time with sober women because of how people respond to me in groups, and she immediately said "Oh yeah. I've seen you in groups and I can totally understand what you mean."

The one group I felt 100% able to let my hair down in was my Chemical Health AA Alternatives meeting in Edina, MN. We started off with all of us in the conference room and listened to the doctor give a presentation. Then I broke off into a very small group of eight people or less (usually less). I didn't talk a whole lot in that gourp and I felt comfortable being more of a wallflower, if that makes sense.

I think the reason I felt so comfortable in that group is that there were no rituals, or things to be chanted in unison, or memorized phrases. Having been brought up in a strict Christian home, I am very sensitive to that sort of thing and really have to grit my teeth.

Anyway, I said before that I am not sober yet, but I have been doing little things to take back some control. I've mentioned before that I start thinking about having a glass of wine around five. This week I have been waiting until six or later. I've been streeeeeetching it out over the course of the evening instead of finishing too early and being drunk. I know it's nowhere near perfection but it's progress.

seejay · 02-21-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanutte

Thanks for your nice words, Lisa! Believe me, I am not saying that to be braggy...I mentioned something to my best friend back home about wanting to have some one-on-one time with sober women because of how people respond to me in groups, and she immediately said "Oh yeah. I've seen you in groups and I can totally understand what you mean."

The one group I felt 100% able to let my hair down in was my Chemical Health AA Alternatives meeting in Edina, MN. We started off with all of us in the conference room and listened to the doctor give a presentation. Then I broke off into a very small group of eight people or less (usually less). I didn't talk a whole lot in that gourp and I felt comfortable being more of a wallflower, if that makes sense.

What happens when you assume the wallflower role in a large group?

Quote:

Having been brought up in a strict Christian home, I am very sensitive to that sort of thing and really have to grit my teeth.

Eek. No wonder you don't like that part of the 12 step culture.

Quote:

take back some control.

deep dark secret - the opposite of "being out of control" is NOT, ironically, to take back control.. those are two sides of the same sick coin.

Any opinions on what the true opposite is, before I rant on?

peanutte · 02-21-2007, 05:55 PM

I would guess you are going to say it's giving up control. I'm not comfortable with that concept yet.

Quote:

What happens when you assume the wallflower role in a large group?

I am able to be still and quiet and listen without thinking about myself or people's reactions to me. I feel more grounded.

lisayak · 02-22-2007, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanutte

I think the reason I felt so comfortable in that group is that there were no rituals, or things to be chanted in unison, or memorized phrases. Having been brought up in a strict Christian home, I am very sensitive to that sort of thing and really have to grit my teeth.

Yeah, I would be inclined to skip participating in the prayers if I found it troublesome. I take a "that's your problem" approach to AA - if I don't like it, I leave it right where is, in the meeting room. It's not my problem.

I do find some American AA groups to be more zealous than what I'm used to in the UK. Cultural differences make up a large part of that, but there can be an almost evangelical feel to certain meetings, which turns me off as well, despite my high regard for the program and the success I have had with it.

I hate the "you're never gonna get sober if you don't get God in your life" attitude displayed by some people. Oh really? I know a lot of people who are perfectly sober atheists here in Cardiff. I know people who believe the Higher Power is the collective energy of people at meetings, and I know people with 15 years+ who scoff at the idea of an HP.

I just mentally say "that's your program" when I feel overwhelmed by that type of attitude.

Glad you're making progress, hope you have a peaceful day.

peanutte · 02-22-2007, 08:23 AM

I think you're right about the difference between American AA and in the UK.

seejay · 02-22-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanutte

I would guess you are going to say it's giving up control. I'm not comfortable with that concept yet.

Nope. You're still on the control scale. The opposite I am thinking of doesn't even use that word.

Quote:

I am able to be still and quiet and listen without thinking about myself or people's reactions to me. I feel more grounded.

This sounds wonderful. Why don't you do it all the time? Is it that you feel you must introduce yourself, and as soon as you open your mouth, the Star emerges? I'm just guessing.

peanutte · 02-22-2007, 11:59 AM

I'd say that's pretty close, seejay.

So tell me what the opposite is! I want to know!

lisayak · 02-22-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanutte

I'd say that's pretty close, seejay.

So tell me what the opposite is! I want to know!

The opposite for me was simply to step out of the ring with alcohol. I'm done fighting. Every d**n day I drank was one long fight to stay in control - of the amount I drank, of the way I felt, of my behaviour when drunk.

I'm done fighting, and life has gotten soooo much simpler. Still has its painful moments (like tonight), but simpler nonetheless.

peanutte · 02-22-2007, 02:02 PM

That's what I mean when I said giving up control--in other words, just saying "control or lack thereof will no longer be an issue. Because I'm not playing anymore."

Sorry it's painful tonight...you're a very intelligent and compassionate person and I admire, you, Lisa.

lisayak · 02-22-2007, 02:22 PM

Thank you Peanutte, it has been such a bad week. I'm praying that this is just a massive case of PMS because maybe then it's coming to a head and will soon be over. Everything seems to be happening at once, and I feel lonely as well...and I can do nothing at the moment to ease my situation.

I simply cannot wait for my course to begin at the end of March, I feel the need to be busy so strongly right now. Anything to take me out of me.

I just want to go to bed now and get today over with. Thank goodness these days are few and far between.

peanutte · 02-22-2007, 03:32 PM

I'm so sorry this is a particularly rough time for you. Divorce is extremely draining, emotionally and physically and financially.

seejay · 02-22-2007, 08:16 PM

Yes, divorce time is the pits. Everything is at sixes and sevens. I had one.

Peanutte, for me the opposite of control is "respect." Respect for the realities of alcohol and my body, and respect for what I want and like.

For me the reality of alcohol and bodies is like a force of nature to be respected. Alcohol will have its way. Every time. My body will change in response to alcohol. every time.

I grew up in snow country and during the winter, we did not "disrespect" the power of snow and cold. We did all kinds of things that someone moving to snow country from say, Dallas, would not know.... what to put in your trunk, you really do need to carry things for emergencies, how to thwart frostbite (and what the signs are), when and where to drive, etc.

And on the respect for myself side, I am a grownup with skills and experience. I get to keep what makes sense and toss the rest. I get to choose the boundaries of what is "a force of nature" and so I don't mess with it, or what is maybe up to me to fiddle with. (12 steps know that difference as the serenity prayer.)

You will also hear "surrender" but that whole language doesn't work for me. It smacks of hierarchy and the religion of the 30s or whenever Bill started it. It's the language of combat - you either fight, engage, or if not, then surrender or, step out of the ring (combat sport).

A whole different model is that of gardening/growing/building among peers. You exert influence where you can. You get out of the way when you can't. You prune, burn or bury threats. You respect that if you give weeds room, they will grow. And you respect that if you don't want weeds, but flowers instead, you can have that, dammit.

lisayak · 02-23-2007, 01:06 AM

Thanks guys, for your support. It is very stressful, and although I'm doing pretty well, I've got to remember that I'll come through it. I'm off to the retreat now and I'm looking forward to a hopefully relaxing and informative weekend.

For an interesting take on "surrender", I recommend reading The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. An absolutely fantastic book, but the chapter entitled "Surrender" was particularly poignant and relevant to me.

I'll let you know how it went Monday!

luvin life · 02-23-2007, 10:39 AM

Hey guys I just stumbles on these threads, and I am glad that I did, I have been there and back, praise God I have been clean for 7 years.at the time I thought it was the hardest thing that I have ever been through. Now I am going through the same thing but with food, if its not one thing it is another. But I use the same thought process one is to many a thousand is not enough. Just take it one day at a time, and you can do it.If I can do it, anybody can do it.

lisayak · 02-25-2007, 02:37 PM

Hi Luvin Life! Nice to meet you, and congratulations on 7 years' sobriety

. Food is something I wrestle with too...addictive personalities switch focus sooo easily!

The retreat was fantastic. I was really tense and apprehensive about doing the 4&5, but the relief was immense. I enjoyed the rest of the weekend and really got to relax. I needed it!

The retreat was held at a conference centre located on the grounds of a monastery, in rolling English countryside - absolutely gorgeous, peaceful and inspiring. The weather was a mix of sun and rain, so we had rainbows throughout Saturday and Sunday, which was a particularly magical touch.

I walked the countryside and at night went to the Cathedral, where the monks chanted the evening prayers in the dark church. It was an exceptionally beautiful and moving experience.

Hope you all are having a peaceful day...

Lisa

lisayak · 02-28-2007, 09:05 AM

Hi all,

I was at my counselling appointment on Monday. She's a lovely, intelligent and insightful lady - I enjoy our conversations immensely.

BUT - she views my definition of myself as an addict/alcoholic as limiting, and my program for dealing with same as "Spartan". I can't argue, I suppose it is - I would say that I'm an AA hardliner when it comes to my own sobriety. I don't judge others though, we each need to find our own path.

Sometimes it feels like in my attempt to become well all I do is strip away the extraneous bits of my life...and I want to rebel. When do I get what I want??? Then I take a look at the results - I'm a big believer in Results Don't Lie, and AA is the only thing which has ever helped me begin to unlock the potential inside me. Why do I fight against the very thing which saves me? The age old battle of short term pleasure against long term gain - story of my life.

So that's sobriety in Cardiff today. Tomorrow I register at my University and I cannot wait. I need the distraction!

Lots of love

peanutte · 03-01-2007, 09:07 AM

Can I borrow your counsellor? Just kidding. I personally find her viewpoint appealing, but that doesn't matter--YOU need her to understand where YOU're coming from and what works for YOU. What does she care if you prefer to be hardcore AA, if that works for you? Is there some way in which she suggests AA is holding you back, and if so, from what?

I'd appreciate any advice about how to handle a friend of mine. She is the one who is most concerned about me achieving sobriety, and I told her I went to that one meeting. I haven't been back, although I may well go back--I just have not felt inclined to sit in a group, and I admit I am leery of certain things about the program. Anyway, I want to keep in touch with my friend, but I don't feel like answering a bunch of questions about whether or not I'm going to meetings or whether or not I'm sober. How can I phrase this diplomatically? We have a friendship of some fifteen years, and I don't want to feel like I'm answering to her about my drinking anytime I call. You know what I mean? I don't want that to be the only thing we talk about anymore?

NoMoVino · 03-01-2007, 09:12 AM

Peanutte, why don't you give her a certain amount of time where you will answer questions and after that you must move on. So, if you talk for 20 minutes, spend 3-5 minutes answering her questions. Then the subject changes. Explain the rules to her at the start of your conversation. She'll understand.

I've heard this as a suggestion in couples counseling where one person has been unfaithful. It can't be all you talk about, but it needs to be addressed, so address it freely for a limited period on a regular basis.

seejay · 03-01-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisayak

I was at my counselling appointment on Monday. She's a lovely, intelligent and insightful lady - I enjoy our conversations immensely.

BUT - she views my definition of myself as an addict/alcoholic as limiting, and my program for dealing with same as "Spartan". I can't argue, I suppose it is - I would say that I'm an AA hardliner when it comes to my own sobriety. I don't judge others though, we each need to find our own path.

Has she ever been an addict?

Personally, I reframe that "addict" label differently. I am wired a certain way. Addiction is the end-stage, way-out-there state of unbalance.

So, I will always be wired the way I am, but I don't have to be an addict/in the addiction. There's a subtle difference. To define myself by the unbalanced state seems not helpful. I am a fine-tuned machine that is extra sensitive to opiods and alcohol, big deal, so I stay away from things that set off the bad reactions.

I get that "Spartan" thing a lot from people who simply can't imagine living without "white powder" or refined food and drugs (sugar, white flour, splenda, alcohol, ad nauseum). Well they have not walked in my shoes, and FELT how wonderful it is to be fueled with good stuff and not be dragged down by the bad. If they had felt the difference there would be NO question why I would want to stay on the side of the divide that I'm on.

lisayak · 03-01-2007, 01:08 PM

Hey Peanutte!

I do really like my conversations with my counsellor - her thoughts are always original and stimulating. She doesn't have any difficulty with my abstention from alcohol, rather that she sees in me a very driven, at times masochistic person. She's right! She also believes that with personal growth, there could be a time when I wouldn't abuse alcohol. She may be right, but that's one experiment I pray I never try. After all, I'm missing nothing in my life by not drinking. I've been seeing her on and off throughout my sobriety, when I need more intensive focus on how to deal with my life, and she's seen the massive changes in me, so she's not against the AA program as such - just how I administer it to myself, I suppose. She's not the first.

As far as your friend goes, this is tricky. It is so difficult for someone not suffering the pain of an alcohol problem to understand why one day you may want to talk about it, and not another. Would an answer like "I'm still trying to find my way through this one but I'm not in the mood to discuss it now" satisfy her? If she didn't respect that boundary when you set it that would complicate things. Perhaps you could also point out the value you place in her company - it's great she cares and worries for you, but you want to enjoy her conversation and hear about her life, not just focus on what she perceives as your "problem". Very tricky.

lisayak · 03-01-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seejay

Has she ever been an addict?

Nope! That's why, as thought-provoking and stimulating as I find my conversations with her, I don't feel that she has true insight into my addiction. For instance, as I posted above, she feels that there could be a time when I could drink safely. And perhaps she's right......but her theory can't explain the cravings I have for MORE MORE MORE when I have any alcohol in my system. She is spot on so much else though, I just agree to disagree!

And I absolutely agree - my nervous system is so sensitive to alcohol that any amount leads me to feel depression and anxiety. Drinking one day sets me up for days of black moods. Release from that is priceless!!! Spartan? Maybe to someone normal, but to someone with my chemistry it's a blessing. I feel so lucky - all I have to do is abstain to limit the damage my disease does. So many, many others have no ability to impact their diseases and suffer ill health.

I feel so great, I don't miss it at all!

peanutte · 03-01-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

spend 3-5 minutes answering her questions. Then the subject changes.

I would think this was appropriate if my drinking affected our relationship, but seeing as she lives across the country and has not been directly impacted by my wine consumption, I don't see why she has any reason to be keeping tabs on me anyway. But, I called her today and we talked about other stuff, and it didn't come up. So maybe that's the way it's going to be.

Quote:

It is so difficult for someone not suffering the pain of an alcohol problem to understand why one day you may want to talk about it, and not another. Would an answer like "I'm still trying to find my way through this one but I'm not in the mood to discuss it now" satisfy her?

You're so right, Lisa; sometimes it's helpful to talk about it and other times it really is just rehashing stuff in a way that ISN'T helpful. Your answer is a good suggestion!

lisayak · 03-03-2007, 03:19 AM

My oldest friend (lives in the States) recently completed rehab and has 6 months' sobriety. Before I got sober, she was the first person (and only person) I ever talked about my drinking with. The conversations were electric; now I realise the power was strong identification with each other because we were both active alcoholics. The feeling of intense loneliness and isolation I carried with me every day would ease when we spoke of our drinking. It was a relief to speak of the huge pink elephant in the room.

I got sober before she did, though, and she didn't like it. I never pushed AA on her but she was aware that was how I was able to get sober and stay that way. If asked I would speak of how it was working for me, but the only advice I had for her was that if she wanted to speak to other people struggling with our problem, AA was the place to go.

By the time I was four months' sober, she couldn't talk to me anymore. My sobriety was threatening to her drinking and the personal conversations stopped. She basically "let me go" and I did too, because I couldn't force her to see her problems, or get well. I figured she would come to it in her own time, and she did.

The happy ending to this story is that because I never forced my hand with her, when she was ready to re-establish contact, we could pick up where we left off without bad blood between us. She's doing well and I'm so very, very pleased for her.

Peanutte, I'm not really sure why I'm sharing this, I suppose it's 'cause your situation with your friend made me think about how alcohol really can affect all areas of a person's life. I hope your friend can be gentle with you during your tough times, and not try to control you or "fix" you into what she thinks is best for you. We all have our own path.

peanutte · 03-03-2007, 09:43 AM

I have a friend like that too, and I am very comfortable talking about it with her. She would be happy for me if I decided to be sober, though, and I would be happy for her. It's exactly what you said, though: we don't have to try to explain ourselves to each other because we identify with the same struggles.

02-23-2007, 10:39 AM	#315
luvin life Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 73 Gallery: luvin life Stats: 289/223/135 5"3 WOE: trying Atkins 72 Start Date: starting 3/26/07	Mind over Matter Hey guys I just stumbles on these threads, and I am glad that I did, I have been there and back, praise God I have been clean for 7 years.at the time I thought it was the hardest thing that I have ever been through. Now I am going through the same thing but with food, if its not one thing it is another. But I use the same thought process one is to many a thousand is not enough. Just take it one day at a time, and you can do it.If I can do it, anybody can do it. __________________ 289/223/135 BELIEVE IN YOURSELF

02-21-2007, 05:23 PM	#302
peanutte MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,779 Gallery: peanutte	Thanks for your nice words, Lisa! Believe me, I am not saying that to be braggy...I mentioned something to my best friend back home about wanting to have some one-on-one time with sober women because of how people respond to me in groups, and she immediately said "Oh yeah. I've seen you in groups and I can totally understand what you mean." The one group I felt 100% able to let my hair down in was my Chemical Health AA Alternatives meeting in Edina, MN. We started off with all of us in the conference room and listened to the doctor give a presentation. Then I broke off into a very small group of eight people or less (usually less). I didn't talk a whole lot in that gourp and I felt comfortable being more of a wallflower, if that makes sense. I think the reason I felt so comfortable in that group is that there were no rituals, or things to be chanted in unison, or memorized phrases. Having been brought up in a strict Christian home, I am very sensitive to that sort of thing and really have to grit my teeth. Anyway, I said before that I am not sober yet, but I have been doing little things to take back some control. I've mentioned before that I start thinking about having a glass of wine around five. This week I have been waiting until six or later. I've been streeeeeetching it out over the course of the evening instead of finishing too early and being drunk. I know it's nowhere near perfection but it's progress.

02-22-2007, 08:23 AM	#306
peanutte MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,779 Gallery: peanutte	I think you're right about the difference between American AA and in the UK.

02-22-2007, 11:59 AM	#308
peanutte MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,779 Gallery: peanutte	I'd say that's pretty close, seejay. So tell me what the opposite is! I want to know!

02-22-2007, 02:02 PM	#310
peanutte MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,779 Gallery: peanutte	That's what I mean when I said giving up control--in other words, just saying "control or lack thereof will no longer be an issue. Because I'm not playing anymore." Sorry it's painful tonight...you're a very intelligent and compassionate person and I admire, you, Lisa.

02-22-2007, 02:22 PM	#311
lisayak Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 511 Gallery: lisayak Stats: 187/140/140 WOE: Atkins Start Date: June 2005	Thank you Peanutte, it has been such a bad week. I'm praying that this is just a massive case of PMS because maybe then it's coming to a head and will soon be over. Everything seems to be happening at once, and I feel lonely as well...and I can do nothing at the moment to ease my situation. I simply cannot wait for my course to begin at the end of March, I feel the need to be busy so strongly right now. Anything to take me out of me. I just want to go to bed now and get today over with. Thank goodness these days are few and far between.

02-22-2007, 03:32 PM	#312
peanutte MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,779 Gallery: peanutte	I'm so sorry this is a particularly rough time for you. Divorce is extremely draining, emotionally and physically and financially.

02-22-2007, 08:16 PM	#313
seejay Senior LCF Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 262 Gallery: seejay	Yes, divorce time is the pits. Everything is at sixes and sevens. I had one. Peanutte, for me the opposite of control is "respect." Respect for the realities of alcohol and my body, and respect for what I want and like. For me the reality of alcohol and bodies is like a force of nature to be respected. Alcohol will have its way. Every time. My body will change in response to alcohol. every time. I grew up in snow country and during the winter, we did not "disrespect" the power of snow and cold. We did all kinds of things that someone moving to snow country from say, Dallas, would not know.... what to put in your trunk, you really do need to carry things for emergencies, how to thwart frostbite (and what the signs are), when and where to drive, etc. And on the respect for myself side, I am a grownup with skills and experience. I get to keep what makes sense and toss the rest. I get to choose the boundaries of what is "a force of nature" and so I don't mess with it, or what is maybe up to me to fiddle with. (12 steps know that difference as the serenity prayer.) You will also hear "surrender" but that whole language doesn't work for me. It smacks of hierarchy and the religion of the 30s or whenever Bill started it. It's the language of combat - you either fight, engage, or if not, then surrender or, step out of the ring (combat sport). A whole different model is that of gardening/growing/building among peers. You exert influence where you can. You get out of the way when you can't. You prune, burn or bury threats. You respect that if you give weeds room, they will grow. And you respect that if you don't want weeds, but flowers instead, you can have that, dammit.

02-23-2007, 01:06 AM	#314
lisayak Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 511 Gallery: lisayak Stats: 187/140/140 WOE: Atkins Start Date: June 2005	Thanks guys, for your support. It is very stressful, and although I'm doing pretty well, I've got to remember that I'll come through it. I'm off to the retreat now and I'm looking forward to a hopefully relaxing and informative weekend. For an interesting take on "surrender", I recommend reading The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. An absolutely fantastic book, but the chapter entitled "Surrender" was particularly poignant and relevant to me. I'll let you know how it went Monday!

02-25-2007, 02:37 PM	#316
lisayak Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 511 Gallery: lisayak Stats: 187/140/140 WOE: Atkins Start Date: June 2005	Hi Luvin Life! Nice to meet you, and congratulations on 7 years' sobriety . Food is something I wrestle with too...addictive personalities switch focus sooo easily! The retreat was fantastic. I was really tense and apprehensive about doing the 4&5, but the relief was immense. I enjoyed the rest of the weekend and really got to relax. I needed it! The retreat was held at a conference centre located on the grounds of a monastery, in rolling English countryside - absolutely gorgeous, peaceful and inspiring. The weather was a mix of sun and rain, so we had rainbows throughout Saturday and Sunday, which was a particularly magical touch. I walked the countryside and at night went to the Cathedral, where the monks chanted the evening prayers in the dark church. It was an exceptionally beautiful and moving experience. Hope you all are having a peaceful day... Lisa

02-28-2007, 09:05 AM	#317
lisayak Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 511 Gallery: lisayak Stats: 187/140/140 WOE: Atkins Start Date: June 2005	Hi all, I was at my counselling appointment on Monday. She's a lovely, intelligent and insightful lady - I enjoy our conversations immensely. BUT - she views my definition of myself as an addict/alcoholic as limiting, and my program for dealing with same as "Spartan". I can't argue, I suppose it is - I would say that I'm an AA hardliner when it comes to my own sobriety. I don't judge others though, we each need to find our own path. Sometimes it feels like in my attempt to become well all I do is strip away the extraneous bits of my life...and I want to rebel. When do I get what I want??? Then I take a look at the results - I'm a big believer in Results Don't Lie, and AA is the only thing which has ever helped me begin to unlock the potential inside me. Why do I fight against the very thing which saves me? The age old battle of short term pleasure against long term gain - story of my life. So that's sobriety in Cardiff today. Tomorrow I register at my University and I cannot wait. I need the distraction! Lots of love

03-01-2007, 09:07 AM	#318
peanutte MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,779 Gallery: peanutte	Can I borrow your counsellor? Just kidding. I personally find her viewpoint appealing, but that doesn't matter--YOU need her to understand where YOU're coming from and what works for YOU. What does she care if you prefer to be hardcore AA, if that works for you? Is there some way in which she suggests AA is holding you back, and if so, from what? I'd appreciate any advice about how to handle a friend of mine. She is the one who is most concerned about me achieving sobriety, and I told her I went to that one meeting. I haven't been back, although I may well go back--I just have not felt inclined to sit in a group, and I admit I am leery of certain things about the program. Anyway, I want to keep in touch with my friend, but I don't feel like answering a bunch of questions about whether or not I'm going to meetings or whether or not I'm sober. How can I phrase this diplomatically? We have a friendship of some fifteen years, and I don't want to feel like I'm answering to her about my drinking anytime I call. You know what I mean? I don't want that to be the only thing we talk about anymore?

03-01-2007, 09:12 AM	#319
NoMoVino Junior LCF Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 34 Gallery: NoMoVino Stats: 146/138/126 WOE: BfL Start Date: February 8, 2008	Peanutte, why don't you give her a certain amount of time where you will answer questions and after that you must move on. So, if you talk for 20 minutes, spend 3-5 minutes answering her questions. Then the subject changes. Explain the rules to her at the start of your conversation. She'll understand. I've heard this as a suggestion in couples counseling where one person has been unfaithful. It can't be all you talk about, but it needs to be addressed, so address it freely for a limited period on a regular basis.

03-01-2007, 01:08 PM	#321
lisayak Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 511 Gallery: lisayak Stats: 187/140/140 WOE: Atkins Start Date: June 2005	Hey Peanutte! I do really like my conversations with my counsellor - her thoughts are always original and stimulating. She doesn't have any difficulty with my abstention from alcohol, rather that she sees in me a very driven, at times masochistic person. She's right! She also believes that with personal growth, there could be a time when I wouldn't abuse alcohol. She may be right, but that's one experiment I pray I never try. After all, I'm missing nothing in my life by not drinking. I've been seeing her on and off throughout my sobriety, when I need more intensive focus on how to deal with my life, and she's seen the massive changes in me, so she's not against the AA program as such - just how I administer it to myself, I suppose. She's not the first. As far as your friend goes, this is tricky. It is so difficult for someone not suffering the pain of an alcohol problem to understand why one day you may want to talk about it, and not another. Would an answer like "I'm still trying to find my way through this one but I'm not in the mood to discuss it now" satisfy her? If she didn't respect that boundary when you set it that would complicate things. Perhaps you could also point out the value you place in her company - it's great she cares and worries for you, but you want to enjoy her conversation and hear about her life, not just focus on what she perceives as your "problem". Very tricky.

03-03-2007, 03:19 AM	#324
lisayak Senior LCF Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 511 Gallery: lisayak Stats: 187/140/140 WOE: Atkins Start Date: June 2005	My oldest friend (lives in the States) recently completed rehab and has 6 months' sobriety. Before I got sober, she was the first person (and only person) I ever talked about my drinking with. The conversations were electric; now I realise the power was strong identification with each other because we were both active alcoholics. The feeling of intense loneliness and isolation I carried with me every day would ease when we spoke of our drinking. It was a relief to speak of the huge pink elephant in the room. I got sober before she did, though, and she didn't like it. I never pushed AA on her but she was aware that was how I was able to get sober and stay that way. If asked I would speak of how it was working for me, but the only advice I had for her was that if she wanted to speak to other people struggling with our problem, AA was the place to go. By the time I was four months' sober, she couldn't talk to me anymore. My sobriety was threatening to her drinking and the personal conversations stopped. She basically "let me go" and I did too, because I couldn't force her to see her problems, or get well. I figured she would come to it in her own time, and she did. The happy ending to this story is that because I never forced my hand with her, when she was ready to re-establish contact, we could pick up where we left off without bad blood between us. She's doing well and I'm so very, very pleased for her. Peanutte, I'm not really sure why I'm sharing this, I suppose it's 'cause your situation with your friend made me think about how alcohol really can affect all areas of a person's life. I hope your friend can be gentle with you during your tough times, and not try to control you or "fix" you into what she thinks is best for you. We all have our own path.

03-03-2007, 09:43 AM	#325
peanutte MAJOR LCF POSTER! Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,779 Gallery: peanutte	I have a friend like that too, and I am very comfortable talking about it with her. She would be happy for me if I decided to be sober, though, and I would be happy for her. It's exactly what you said, though: we don't have to try to explain ourselves to each other because we identify with the same struggles.