Why the fascination with Kimmer?

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by shelby7851

Oh i misunderstod the PP, as long as the account has more than $100 in it, they will freeze it, right? it isnt about the amount of the transaction.

Yes, indeed.

[SMP]

Originally Posted by MacNut

It still seems to me as the business partner, she would be liable for the losses of those who signed up while she was still a partner. She was an owner of the site and the site promised something that it ultimately did not deliver. I am not saying this means she was wrong just financially responsible.

I still think that by Heidi buying out Catherine, she also bought all the legal liability. I can't imagine anyone as business minded as Catherine not dotting the "t's" or crossing the "i's" or whatever it takes. It just seems so ...unbusinesslike. Or maybe the laws are different in the States than Canada, but the only way Catherine would share liability (note I didn't say culpability) would be if she had been in on the scam from the beginning. And THAT would be exceedingly difficult to prove, since she had a hard time to get even an old pix out of Heidi. It's not as though Malta were just around the corner and she could drop by Heidi's for a cuppa.

[magnolia_petals]

If you paid with a credit card via paypal....do a charge back immediately with your credit card....some companies allow up to 6 months for a charge back. This is usually much more effective than filing a paypal dispute.
I have had only one freeze, buyer paid with credit card, he had a problem between his bank and credit card company, paypal froze the amount he paid me until the problem with his credit card was resolved. No other monies in my account was touched. Now I have heard that if there are a number of complaints that paypal may freeze all of your money just to make sure the owner of the account doesn't try to run.

[missis36]

Originally Posted by magnolia_petals

If you paid with a credit card via paypal....do a charge back immediately with your credit card....some companies allow up to 6 months for a charge back. This is usually much more effective than filing a paypal dispute.
I have had only one freeze, buyer paid with credit card, he had a problem between his bank and credit card company, paypal froze the amount he paid me until the problem with his credit card was resolved. No other monies in my account was touched. Now I have heard that if there are a number of complaints that paypal may freeze all of your money just to make sure the owner of the account doesn't try to run.

Yup and that';s the reason to file a dispute. To make sure that the money stays here no matter where she goes. If you have paid by pay pal go to the site and file a dispute. They will freeze her account as Jeanessa has said. It will work, it's what they do.

[mistyk]

Originally Posted by missis36

Yup and that';s the reason to file a dispute. To make sure that the money stays here no matter where she goes. If you have paid by pay pal go to the site and file a dispute. They will freeze her account as Jeanessa has said. It will work, it's what they do.

They don't always do it. When I filed in July, they sent it to Kimmer and she escalated it (oh, the arrogance-- I guess she's been down this road a few times!) and PayPal IMMEDIATELY shot it down... said that their service doesn't guarantee the quality of a product, just the delivery of it. I tried to refile it, but the system wouldn't allow it. Wonder if a phone call would help at this point in the game?

[Cutie]

Originally Posted by mistyk

They don't always do it. When I filed in July, they sent it to Kimmer and she escalated it (oh, the arrogance-- I guess she's been down this road a few times!) and PayPal IMMEDIATELY shot it down... said that their service doesn't guarantee the quality of a product, just the delivery of it. I tried to refile it, but the system wouldn't allow it. Wonder if a phone call would help at this point in the game?

people who joined when she was promoting an e-book can complain that she did NOT deliver her product.

[Mariasol]

Originally Posted by Cutie

people who joined when she was promoting an e-book can complain that she did NOT deliver her product.

I asked about this last week and kimmer answered "soon"

[mistyk]

Originally Posted by Cutie

people who joined when she was promoting an e-book can complain that she did NOT deliver her product.

Yes, good point... when was she promising that? I just signed up in July-- I'm guessing she had had stopped promising the ebook by then?

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by mistyk

They don't always do it. When I filed in July, they sent it to Kimmer and she escalated it (oh, the arrogance-- I guess she's been down this road a few times!) and PayPal IMMEDIATELY shot it down... said that their service doesn't guarantee the quality of a product, just the delivery of it. I tried to refile it, but the system wouldn't allow it. Wonder if a phone call would help at this point in the game?

Its really all in the claim that you submit. I didn't address product quality. I chose: Item not as described....

And went on and on about the ebook and banning.

Besides, if numerous claims are made, they will freeze that account because they stand to lose money. They have a 45 day consumer protection policy and they know they have to refund your money based on it. They debit the sellers account when this happens and if there is no money there, they have no guarantee that the seller will log on again to clear the negative balance (reimburse Paypal the money they have refunded the customer).

PayPal also has no legal means of collection (besides selling their debt to a collection agency) because they are not licensed in all 50 states to adhere to collections laws, so they can not affect your credit rating.

Suffice it to say, freezing accounts is their way of protecting themselves.

Geez, how do I know all of this crap

[missis36]

Originally Posted by Cutie

people who joined when she was promoting an e-book can complain that she did NOT deliver her product.

Yupper....call...it's just like in any type of transaction...if you do not get the resolution you want, you call, if a rep can't help you, ask for a manager, explain that you didn't get your e-book, and also that you feel you got scammed because you paid for something that is free on any other site. There ya go.

[mistyk]

But, you know what, I think they should honor our requests even without the ebook angle. Why should PayPal, a reputable company, knowingly aid a fraud? In my dispute, I laid out the dangers of her plan and how it was seriously misrepresented-- that's not about the "quality"; it's about truth in advertising!!!! If that's PayPal's stance, we could all start fake businesses tomorrow, get rich, and then stand behind this "we don't guarantee the quality".... line. I call bogus! Somewhere, somehow, someone has to be accountable!

[mistyk]

Originally Posted by jeanessa

Its really all in the claim that you submit. I did't address product quality. I chose: Item not as described....

I used the same and it got me nowhere. Of course, that was in July. Maybe now, with more and more people jumping on board, it might be different. In fact, there was a note on my closed dispute that mentioned that multiple complaints (from different people) would result in an investigation. Go with that...

[Cutie]

Originally Posted by mistyk

Yes, good point... when was she promising that? I just signed up in July-- I'm guessing she had had stopped promising the ebook by then?

i don't know when she stopped promising the e-book? i'll ask around though...

[mistyk]

Here's a promising note in my PayPal claim rejection:

"We have noted your claim in the seller's record. The seller's account privileges will be limited if excessive complaints are received."

[missis36]

Originally Posted by mistyk

Here's a promising note in my PayPal claim rejection:

"We have noted your claim in the seller's record. The seller's account privileges will be limited if excessive complaints are received."

That's why we kept saying to file disputes hehehe But a proising note none the less! That's awesome!

[mistyk]

For the record, here's the note I submitted with my PayPal dispute. I selected "Item significantly not as described" and I wrote:

"I am requesting a refund because this diet is seriously misrepresented. When I ordered site access, I believed I was getting a healthy, safe, medically sound way to lose weight fast. Instead, I got what boils down to a starvation diet. My membership granted me access to a site where dieters are routinely advised to use laxatives, conduct water fasts, restrict calories to an unsafe level, and exercise without adequate calorie consumption. I have seen Kimkins dieters suffering from gallbladder removal due to the extremely low fat on the diet. I have seen many others complaining of dizziness, extreme weakness, and passing out due to low food intake. Still others have developed laxative dependency or have been hospitalized because of the effects of salt washes and laxative use. Worst of all, I have seen desperate people coming to the founder for advice when they fail to lose as quickly as they desire. Her advice is always that they should cut more fat and more calories, even when the calories are already well below 1000 per day. Any medical professional will tell you that the body requires AT LEAST 1000 just to maintain its normal functions. Even worse, she bullies people by telling them they're not "tough enough" for Kimkins. She taunts them with references to stress eating and bingeing. There is a real eating disorder mentality at this site. Dieters comparing calorie consumption-- bragging about eating only 300 calories per day. This is not what I intended to spend my hard earned money on. I would rather be overweight than anorexic. Yes, I ordered this over 2 weeks ago. It takes that long to get past the bright, shiny promises of rapid weight loss to the dark and ugly truth underneath. Please cancel my membership and refund my $60. Thank you."

[jeanessa]

Originally Posted by mistyk

Here's a promising note in my PayPal claim rejection:

"We have noted your claim in the seller's record. The seller's account privileges will be limited if excessive complaints are received."

Oh God, when they limit your account, it sucks royally. My bro got his account limited when he was selling antique books on eBay because of some discrepancy with his bank account. It was a MESS. You have money there, you can't touch it. You can't send/receive any new money. He was SO angry. And the people on the phone were no help! It took him months to work all that out.

[mistyk]

Originally Posted by missis36

That's why we kept saying to file disputes hehehe But a proising note none the less! That's awesome!

Yeah, well, my account balance is still $0.00. But, if they freeze her account long enough for an investigation, it'll be worth it. At this point, I'm not that worried about my money. I just want to see this con taken down.

[missis36]

Originally Posted by mistyk

Yeah, well, my account balance is still $0.00. But, if they freeze her account long enough for an investigation, it'll be worth it. At this point, I'm not that worried about my money. I just want to see this con taken down.

Ditto!!!

Btw...loved your dispute letter, and I can't see how they didn't find in your favor. Um....she is not able to give that type of advice at least not legally, but they will continue to let her. I'm shocked.

[sosumi]

Originally Posted by robsrib

Update on the clothing line...I just called the company Printfection, that the items come from. The Rep said there are 2 reasons the bad url messages would come up.
1) the store has been moved to a different distribution compeny...in that case there should be a link to the new store front
2) the owner of the website (KK) has closed the store.

He said since they do printing and online ordering services for 20,000 websites he couldn't tell me if KK has closed the store and cancelled the business relationship with Printfection.

My guess is it's #2.

I believe the clothing line was something Christin was "in charge of" so it makes sense that Kimmer does not want to deal with it now that Christin is gone. I remember someone suggesting a new design and Kimmer said she would run it by Christin, as Christin is the creative designer, or something like that.

[Cutie]

Originally Posted by sosumi

I believe the clothing line was something Christin was "in charge of" so it makes sense that Kimmer does not want to deal with it now that Christin is gone. I remember someone suggesting a new design and Kimmer said she would run it by Christin, as Christin is the creative designer, or something like that.

based on something i read in becky's newest blog post today, i kind of got the impression that christin, not kimmer owned the store and that kimmer just got a cut of the profits for advertising it on her site.

i could be wrong of course, but it would explain why it poofed now (christin closed it) vs. kimmer just turning it over to someone else to run (like the next PR director/tippy)

edited to add: becky's blog is winningweight.blogspot.com

[mistyk]

Originally Posted by missis36

Ditto!!!

Btw...loved your dispute letter, and I can't see how they didn't find in your favor. Um....she is not able to give that type of advice at least not legally, but they will continue to let her. I'm shocked.

Thanks... it actually pisses me off! I'm so sick of these companies hiding behind their legal speak and their computers... something is clearly a fraud and you back them up?!?! What kind of policy is this??? It's like these big companies have lost the ability to think, reason, and feel. But that's a different issue altogether, isn't it? Look at Woman's World... if it sells mags, they'll put it on the cover. A lie? A fraud? An unverified story by a phantom woman? No problem!!!

BTW... I missed the point of your earlier posts... I thought you were saying that if you file a dispute, they'll automatically freeze the account. I realize now you were saying that if MANY, MANY file disputes, they'll freeze... gotcha! I'm a little sleep-deprived and that went right over my head!

[anipomoni]

Just a few links showing how vlcd's affect the thyroid and metabolism:

THYROID WEIGHT RESEARCH

http://www.hormoneandlongevitycenter...n_Obesity1.pdf

Effect of a high-protein, very-low-calorie diet on...[Am J Clin Nutr. 1987] - PubMed Result

Resting metabolic rate, body composition and thyroid hormones. Short term effects of very low calorie diet.

Energy-metabolism adaptation in obese adults on a very-low-calorie diet -- Fricker et al. 53 (4): 826 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

index

Low Carbohydrate Nutrition: Research on the Safety of Very Low Calorie Diets

Yes Kimmer, there IS a "starvation mode."

[missis36]

Originally Posted by mistyk

Thanks... it actually pisses me off! I'm so sick of these companies hiding behind their legal speak and their computers... something is clearly a fraud and you back them up?!?! What kind of policy is this??? It's like these big companies have lost the ability to think, reason, and feel. But that's a different issue altogether, isn't it? Look at Woman's World... if it sells mags, they'll put it on the cover. A lie? A fraud? An unverified story by a phantom woman? No problem!!!

BTW... I missed the point of your earlier posts... I thought you were saying that if you file a dispute, they'll automatically freeze the account. I realize now you were saying that if MANY, MANY file disputes, they'll freeze... gotcha! I'm a little sleep-deprived and that went right over my head!

I agree with you 100% I actually called WW a few weeks ago to discontinue my subscription. When they asked why I promptly explained that I didn't realize they were just like the National Enquirer. Since they didn't bother verifying the scam that is Kimkins they put thousands of people in danger and didn't do anything about it. They said ok, and that was that. I guess they aren't planning on printing a retraction. They suck!