PSMF! Anyone?

[3Diva]

Day Yesterday 160
Day Today 158.8

I'm back to my siggy low, but last week at weigh/measure (I do Fridays) I was 159. So far, not much scale movement this week, so if I see no measurement changes tomorrow I may take that as a sign.

Basically, I'm wondering if it's time for my body to take a diet break. I just feel awfully weak and washed out. I couldn't do my Callanetics last ght. I've been doing PSMF since 4/4. I guess if I feel better after my refeed I'll try to stick it out at least another week.

My big concern now is how to do a "diet break". I don't think I can do Lyle's guidelines. Too many carbs... I really want to do something like calculate maintainence calories. maintain or slightly increase protein, keep carbs low 20-40grams and add fat. Basically a very targeted Atkins.

I know some Kimkins people did well cycling with Atkins, so I'm hoping this works well enough for me.

Anyone else do this?

[janamonkey]

1 144.2
...
7 141.8
...
14 141.2 - Diet Meltdown
15 143.0
16 144.0
17 141.4 FM
18 143.4

Not much to update. Things are busy at work today.

[shamrock67]

OK-

So, I just googled the kimmer diet- how is that different from what we're doing? it seems basically like the same thing, except for the emphasis on protein intake-

[gibster]

Shamrock - Oh, boy, don't get us started......

Kimkins is indeed low carb/low fat. But there the similarity ends. On KK, you are not given any protein guidelines, and you are encouraged to eat minimal vegies. The original plan also called for low-dose laxative use, and the admins/owner encouraged anyone who wasn't losing to cut calorie intake down further and further. There also is no recommendation for taking Omega-3's. Trust me, you don't want to go there......

[shamrock67]

Oh yeah- there are all of these law suits etc. about it-.. well, I am going to stick to this plan, it has to work- cutting down on everything fat/cal/carb- I am hungry today-
all I will have left to eat is the tilapia tonight- which is covered with a type of stew made from cooked eggplant, onions, tomatoes,peppers.... according to the package- only 110 calories per 3 oz. of fish- I am going to try to eat less beef and more fish- maybe save the beef for my free meals....

[amiga74]

3Diva,
i think Lyle says that carbs are really impt when taking a diet break, that is the only caution i have. i think 100g+ of carbs are necessary for hormone levels etc. maybe you could cycle. like 1 day 40-60, the next 120.

[Lioness0455]

My refeed went well yesterday. Used the same "frame" from the last one, as to the amount of starchy foods to eat, so I didn't have to count anything, plus added a couple tbsp of butter to my baked potato and dinner rolls so that I could be sure to get myself up over maintenance calories this time.

I almost didn't go through with it, (can't remember if I said that in my last post or not) since I didn't feel like I needed one, but I could hear Lyle in my mind saying the object is to refeed before you need it.

So I did it and I'm up only 1.4 pounds today.

London Broil is 'beef ROUND' and much, much leaner than top sirloin.

Small lesson using Fitday: after you go into the browse meat/beef section, click on "steak" or "beef steak" rather than "add." It will take you to a complete nutritional analysis for whatever cut of beef steak the DEFAULT is. But it will also give you additional choices on the right hand side. If you click on one of those choices (beef round trimmed to 0" fat, as in this case), then change the reference to how much meat you wanna check, and click on recalculate (or whatever the word was for that) it'll bring up the nutritional analysis for the specific type of steak you clicked on.

So 8oz London Broil is:
474 calories, 14g fat, 81g protein, 0 carb

Diva, a lot of folks DID cycle over to Atkins after Kimkins, but from what I've read in their posts, they haven't lost any weight - or at least, not more than a pound or two. Lots of them, and I'm mean LOTS of them are doing their own version of low-fat low-carb now, because that's what works for them. And just keeping quite about it. Heck, look how many folks we have interested in what "we" are doing here now.

When I cycled over to Atkins myself, I started to put my weight back on. I couldn't even maintain with it. Too much fat, and too low in carbs for me. My metabolism couldn't hang with it. Nor did it do ANYTHING in regards to "resetting" my thyroid, leptin levels, or metabolism in general. All it did was make things worse because when I went from Atkins to PSMF, (before my book arrived in the mail), I severely "crashed and burned" 2-1/2 weeks in.

At which time, I decided that I would LISTEN to what Lyle said, and give a "true" diet break an HONEST TRY. Because I realized at that point, that I'd been seriously dieting for over a year with NO CHEATS at very low, low carb levels, and very low, low calories. And I had all of the symptoms of hypothyroid issues, plus low, low leptin levels.

So in my own mind, and belief, diet breaks are absolutely necessary if you don't want to permanently damage your thyroid.

Atkins doesn't "reset" thyroid hormones, or anything else for that matter. And one of the most TELLING things, in regards to Lyle's beliefs and recommendations, are the personal interviews that Dr. Atkins gave when he was still alive. Especially the ones where callers called in to ask him questions. Nine times out of ten, when a person asked about stalled weight loss, in themselves, his answer was to go and get your thyroid checked.

WHY????

Because dieting itself (any diet) creates "starvation conditions" resulting in something called euthyroid stress syndrome. In order to conserve energy the body down-regulates hormones, which is why we refeed. To try to bump them up enough to get us through the next week. There is only ONE WAY to actually "upregulate" thyroid and leptin levels. And that's by eating a minimum of 100 grams of carbohydrate per day, for several days in a row, at maintenance or slightly higher than maintenance level of calories. Fat and protein, even at maintenance levels won't do it.

That's been my own personal experience, anyways.

So what "I" did, was tell myself that the only rule regarding weight regain was going to be that my jeans still fit me. Besides, we're only talking about 2 weeks. How much FAT can you gain in 2 weeks at maintenance calories??? The first 5 to 8 pounds will be glycogen and water. So just prepare your mind for that weight gain. What I did was set an UPPER limit for weight gain. At the time, that upper limit for me was 180 pounds (8 pound gain).

The ironic thing was, I never did need that upper limit. Cuz I first started with 10x my body weight in calories, and 60 to 100 carbs; did that for 3 days and lost a pound. So I then upped my calories to the next level, 11x and 100 grams of carbs. Within 3 days, I lost another lb.

At which time, my inlaws came home and my 'structured' upregulation all went to crap lol.

They heard the phrase "diet break" and just went wacky in the food department, wanted to eat all sorts of high calorie, high-fat stuff. Without making up for the next day. So at 180 pounds, I put the breaks on, and started cooking more reasonably.

I took a full 30 day diet break though, not 2 weeks. I wanted to get my leptin and thyroid levels as high as possible. Once my in-laws went back to work, and life/cooking/eating was more normal for us, I had absolutely NO PROBLEMS maintaining that 180 pounds. In fact, I had to keep upping my calories, in order to do that, to keep myself from LOSING weight, because my metabolism kept speeding up the longer I was on that break.

At the end of 30 days, I was up to 13x my current body weight in calories, something like 2300. Where I was GAINING on Atkins at 1200.

I know it sounds crazy...unrealistic...like it won't work...but here's the thing. There's this MID-SECTION where a lot of women have a very hard time losing/maintaining weight. We do good on very low calories, we do good on almost maintenance or maintenance calories, but if you use a mid-sized deficit, it won't work. Hence my gain on 1200 calories. I have to be at 1000 or less, or 1500 or more.

NOW--granted, I haven't tested this idiocy with a higher calorie Atkins, because what people were saying at the time (eat at bmr or more) didn't make sense to me. Not when I was gaining on 1200 calories. No way was I going to eat 1500 (my bmr was actually 1450).

Because in the beginning when they had me afraid of low-fat low-carb I did take a small detour just before finding the body recomposition site, where I tried eating 0 carb at bmr (gained over 10 pounds in a single week) and then "true" ketogenic ratios (where I gained 5 pounds in 5 days and called it quits).

But now that my metabolism is doing better, and now that I know I NEED to be on a higher carb diet, I "might" try a more moderate type diet sometime this summer. We'll see. Depends upon how this round of psmf goes.

[Jean@125]

Originally Posted by Coconutty

Hello,
I've read this thread and am very interested in this diet. Do you every have difficulties with feeling hungry or are you so deep in ketosis that you barely have an appetite? Also how easy/difficult is it to transition back to Atkins or another WOE without regaining any weight?

I know I have a ton of questions!

Yes I have definitely been hungry. But I look forward to the free meal and that helps alot. I have only been on for 5 days, but I do plan on cycling to atkins after about 2 weeks. I am hoping the cycling will work for me. With atkins I usually stop losing or slow to a crawl after induction so we will see. Jeanie

[Jean@125]

Hi everyone,
Had my first free meal today for lunch. I'll be interested to see how it affects my weight.
Day 1 166
Day 2 163.5
Day 3 161
Day 4 160.5
Day 5 159.5 FM

Hope everyone is having great success! Jeanie

[janamonkey]

Originally Posted by Jean@125

Hi everyone,
Had my first free meal today for lunch. I'll be interested to see how it affects my weight.
Day 1 166
Day 2 163.5
Day 3 161
Day 4 160.5
Day 5 159.5 FM

Hope everyone is having great success! Jeanie

GREAT progress Jeanie!!

[workingmomof3]

Ditto -

Jeanie - you are doing great!!!

Have a great free meal!

Kim

[shamrock67]

Lioness- Thank you- I have to spend more time and find my way around fitday- I just prepared a can of salmon to bring to work, but I think I will also bring 4 oz.of the london broil with me-
Jeanie- that is awesome!

Well, I am at 223 today- I am going to save my free meal for Sunday, because I will be going to a mothers day party, so, since the temptation will be there on that day, it will probably be best-

I was really hungry yesterday, but I ate according to plan...hoping I can get out of the 220's soon!
Ok, gotta get going to work- have a great day everybody!

[ddailey320]

Happy Friday! I was happily surprised with a 1.5 pound loss this morning! I am now only 6.5 pounds away from first mini goal which I wanted to reach by Jue 1st! I wouldn't be surprised if I lose a couple extra pounds this weekend with all the work I'll be doing to build the new patio! Think I might be adding a little gatorade on the days when doing the most digging and lifting outside. I was starting to get just a tad dizzy yesterday after working out there for a while!

I have a free meal coming up on Saturday/Sunday. I'm thinking of again keeping it a very low key FM. I loved not seeing a gain the following day and psychologically I really don't feel the need to splurge "just because I can". KWIM?? I'm thinking a greek salad with crutons and dressing or maybe a small spinach pie!

My Menu
1) 1C Hood CC milk w/ 1scoop PP
2) 1/2C egg beaters w/ 1 oz ham
3) small can tuna w/ 1.5 T Light MW on 1/2 mini pita, 1.5 oz Cucumbers, Ranch spritz
4) 2 Egg Whites, 2 Turkey bacon
5) 4 oz lemon chicken on 1.5 cups bagged salad
Totals: 560cals 9f/14c/102p

[nill4me]

Good Morning from New Orleans!!

I have to say...airports are the worst place to try and eat anything decent on this plan...so i'm glad i at least brought a snack with me. Went to the grocery and filled hubby's fridge with veggies, lean meats, FF cheeses and egg whites...it looked like a bachelor's fridge...beer, soda, and condiments - frozen pizza in the freezer...jeez.

I do wish i had a scale...i hate not being able to weigh every day.

Lioness~ That was a really great post with tons of great info...

Excellent work on your loss Jean!!! congrats!

Gib, i think you are right about the protein in the snacks. Celery just doesn't cut it!!

Shamrock, agree with dailey on the fitday info...i find that i have to input almost everything i buy because thats the only way that i can make sure that the numbers jive right. You're so right, it can be really hard to find the foods on that place.

time to get some work done...have a great day, and great weekend everyone!!

[nill4me]

Originally Posted by ddailey320

Happy Friday! I was happily surprised with a 1.5 pound loss this morning! I am now only 6.5 pounds away from first mini goal which I wanted to reach by Jue 1st!

Woo hoo!!!! You go girl!

[workingmomof3]

Hi guys...

Everyone seems so motivated... yesterday was just day 2 for me -
And although I didn't weigh 1st day morning... I believe that I was around 222-223 or so.... definitely bloated, and heavier for my launch of PSMF - (self-sabotage really though, huh...)

But this morning - I was down to 219 (which is the weight I started at on Mother's Day last year - which was also the complete high end of the scale at that time for me... ) That is probably what really concerned me... my high end, absolute high end has gone up consistantly... hope you don't mind if I review:

Early 20's - shot up to 210 w/1st son - and quickly recovered to 140 ish...(pretty athletic figure so that is a very good weight for me... at that time (early to mid 80's was not too much into fitness... except did do Jane Fonda loyally one summer and looked good...) at the end of my 20's (around 26-27 became certified in aerobics for a 2nd part time job as single mom - made sense - wanted to work out - might as well get paid for it... )

Early 30's - Continued to teach aerobics but the stress of my career, single parent - I was fit but allowed myself to stay heavy was always in the 150- 165 range....

Mid 30's - Continued to teach aerobics and my son was getting older, I was doing well financiallly, career was less stressful and I got interested in maybe dating again, etc... trimmed down pretty easily (from what I remember - could easily jump up/down a couple of sizes) Weighed high 130's to low 140's very fit...

Late 30's - got remarried, stopped teaching aerobics - weight bounced up to 155- 165 - got pregnant - again delivered at 210 - I stayed pretty much at 185 after that point - during one 'motivated spring' got down below 170...
But bounced up to 185 pretty quickly (I think that is a set point for me - as is 155-160 and also 140) by mid summer

41 - Surprise - pregnant!! (Turned 42 a month before he was born) Which is like the song goes "my favorite mistake" - my youngest - he'll be 3 in June - is a joy and really bonded this marriage/family - So I got pregnant at 181- Delivered again at 210ish - And then after #3 was born I could never break 200 (for the longest time) and then was easily bouncing up to 210...Never even got back down into my fat pants!!!! So, last mother's day - did the don't say diet - and by end of June was feeling pretty good about myself - if I had continued, now, in retrospect as what I would refer to as this diet (I think I did find this woe eating by accident) and know that I could have been successful - well - the beginning of the other diet - I did go extreme (for like 3 weeks I only ate chicken, fish and eggs not even a piece of lettuce, or fruit or dairy or vitamins etc...) When I started to incorporate salads, low carb veggies and minimal fat - I was still losing (not at the same rate - but plenty to feel progress) and wished I had just used common sense and continued... then I started to notice a lot of hair in the shower (this is around September) By then I had started falling back into my old eating habits... too much driver thru complete junk food and then the 'controversy' began and I kind of freaked out...

reading and researching I believe that my hair loss (which is totally fine now and although I have thin hair to start with, unless my family and friends were being kind - no one but me noticed...) was from the 3 weeks of extreme dieting - and now I feel confident of the fish oil and eating a bit of fat here and there will hopefully reduce that side effect - but, honestly the process (I forget the clinical name for it... tel somethin, somethin' is very typical and common as part of weight loss...)

My husband and I happened to finally decide to take out mutual life insurance policies in the fall last year - and the plan required 'extreme blood tests, heart evaluations, etc....' Everything on my test came back extremely healthy - (except for height to weight ratio) so, with all the controversy I can say that I did not hurt myself, etc... not trying to defend anything here... just saying...

So, here I be... (is this boring the _ _ _ _ out of you guys.... if so, I am so sorry...) down to the weight I was last year (at least it is not more at the start, right??) -

Last night when I went to bed - I just started visuallizing how great it will be to have a larger wardrobe and getting ready for work w/be sooo much easier when I have more choices.... I have a lot of clothes that I have bought, but never worn (not too trendy - at least I didn't make that mistake) that I have purchased because I loved, but could never bring myself to buy them in my current size - so there they hang just waiting for me... and throughout the last 4 years at least I have received gift cards to TJMaxx, Gap, Talbots that I haven't used because I don't even want to have those sizes in my house... and talk about not wearing shorts for several summers now, or jeans for that matter...

Anyway - please forgive me for taking up space/time...this just makes me more 'motivated' - to get it out there

I was on another thread for a while... IFing and a gal over there talks about motiviation and how you have to find a way to re-motivate, stay motivated everyday because I think it's more 'natural state' to be in a holding pattern than motivated daily and I really need to stay motivated daily - it's the days in a row, and then the more healthy choices that will get me to goal...

Thanks for allowing me to express...

Have a great day!

Kim

[workingmomof3]

Lioness,

You talk about your leptin levels? And how you know that it is time for you to replenish your carbs, I think there is another thing (hormone, maybe?) That you mentioned is also off - that let's you know time to take a diet break... could you mention a little bit about those symptons, etc... I'm very curious...

And also, your messages are so informative - where's as mine I think might be too boring...

Thanks much!

Kim

[Lioness0455]

No, your posts are NOT boring Kim. I am pretty much homebound, due to the vertigo (I only drive 1 mile to work and back), so I love to hear about everyone's lives, what their eating (menus), and how everyone is doing with psmf. Cuz it helps to keep me motivated. Focused. Because my leptin levels drop pretty quickly. Though I'm still having a hard time believing I'm as low in body fat as my scale (and hormonal levels) keep telling me.

Yesterday was very, Very, VERY hard for me. Usually I have that kind of a day on day 2 after a refeed, not the next day. So I wasn't PREPARED. Which was a lot of my problem, I'm sure. I generally eat more on the day I'm making the switch back into Ketosis, so I try to have protein-rich snacks ready. Which I didn't have this time. My husband gave me a couple of ounces of the cheese he'd cut up for his own snack, but it only partially eased what I was going through. Before the night ended, I had 2 left-over refeed cookies and a cup of hot cocoa fall into my mouth in order to make it through the night.

So my calories were a bit on the high end yesterday, and my weight is the same today.

I've also been rethinking the way I'm doing things with my free meals and refeeds. I was looking back over my stats and charts for this round, and a couple of things jumped out at me. I seem to consistently have problems over the weekend with real life crashing into my plan. Then I refeed in mid week. Now I know that Lyle recommends spacing out our free meals and/or refeeds but I'm not so sure that is working for me. Because in essence, I'm doing 3 such off-plan days, rather than 2, out of every 7.

So I'm going to switch things up, by refeeding on Saturdays, then taking my free meal on Sunday if I have to, and Tuesday, if I don't. That way, by the time I weigh in for my weekly stats on Saturday morning, I will have had enough time to cover for a good weigh-in. Cuz this week, by refeeding Wednesday, and have 2 free meals over the prior weekend, I'm up 2-1/4 lbs since last Saturday morning. So I don't know if I'll even break even with this weeks weigh in tomorrow.

As for symptoms of leptin/thyroid (hormone) lowering:

The first thing I generally notice is an increase in hunger. Much like I have when I'm making the switch back into Ketosis, but it's first thing in the morning, rather than late afternoon/evening. I start to get "preoccupied" with food. Especially surgary, and/or carby stuff. I crave chocolate and nuts very heavily. But also other stuff that doesn't bother me when my hormone levels are high. For example, my husband eating ice cream, cookies, crackers, and that kindda thing in front of me.

I get nauseous, and very, very tired. Exhausted kind of tired. Very run down. My asthma grows worse, and I have a hard time breathing. I get extremely COLD. FREEZING all the time. My body temp drops to something like 96 degrees.

I stop caring about what I look like, and I just want to quit dieting. All types of dieting. I want to eat like everyone else is eating. I get very frustrated, irritated, and even angry if it goes on for any length of time. My blood sugar drops dramatically and I go into hypoglycemic episodes. Shaky, nervous, headaches. I generally start walking around saying "I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I don't WANT to do this anymore. I'm done."

That's when I know I NEED to either refeed or take a good, long break.

Day 1: 180.4

Day 7: 174.4

Day 13: 172.2 FM
Day 14: 174 FM
Day 15: 174.8
Day 16: 174.8
Day 17: 173.2 Refeed
Day 18: 174.6
Day 19: 174.6

Another interesting thing: I made a meatloaf out of 90% lean ground beef this week, and each time I had some of that, my weight stalled. Even though my overall fat grams for the day are the same as always. Hmmmmm.

[janamonkey]

Well, as of today I am on a diet break. Some stressful business has come up with a contractor building in the lot behind our house and it may require lawyers, etc. etc. and I know I just can't extreme diet while dealing with this.

Good luck everyone! I may be back after my vacation in a few weeks

[shamrock67]

Well- I don't think anyone here is boring- I think you are all extremely interesting and informative and helpful-

Janamonkey- good luck to you- hopefully, when you check back I'll be in the 2 teen something-

Ok, so I did have my delicious 4 oz. of london broil- I think I will have maybe another 3 oz. tonight along with some broccoli

Probably going to eat some pizza on Sunday- really looking forward to that!! It will not be really greasy type though- whole wheat crust with veggies- I really like veggie pizza the best-

I am glad that some of you ladies have so much in common with me- about the same weight and age-

Ok ladies take care!

[shamrock67]

OH, I forgot to mention-

I was trying to read through some of LM's book, and I was mortified when I realized that the sugarless gum I have been chewing contains sugar alcohols, which are not supposed to be consumed- each piece containing 2 grams, and I have been chewing about 12 pieces per day! So, just want to let everyone know in case they are making the same mistake

[gibster]

Hi, all.
Had my free meal last night: fish (very lightly breaded), salad, chicken breast, fruit skewer (strawberries, grapes, melon, pineapple chunks) and for dessert - macaroni salad! When they brought out the cheesecake, I headed for the mac salad. Ha! I passed on the free drink (I gave my drink ticket away). And I was able to take home a bag of the lettuce salad for today. I haven't journaled the meal yet, but I think I did okay. It sure was nice to not stress over it. And frankly, this morning I didn't feel as perky as usual - probably because of too many carbs, maybe?? Anyway, I did show 0.8 lb. gain this morning.

The psychological "boost" I get from the free meal is really helpful, I think. Just being able to plan for it, and think about what I'd like a few days beforehand, makes it sooo much easier to resist off-plan eating the rest of the time.

Day 1 236.8
Day 2 236.2
Day 3 235
Day 4 233.2
Day 5 232.2
Day 6 233

Jean & Danielle - Great progress! WooHoo!

Vickie - That post is a real winner. I've printed it out so I can add it to my RFL folder.

Kim - You did not bore me at all with your story. My experience with "that diet" is similar. I started it on May 31 last year and continued for about 2 months, although I did use more fat than was "allowed" during the 2nd month. I noticed the same hair loss problem in September and was quite alarmed until I found out about the 2-3 month delayed reaction from the diet. I'm fine now, but I have had a very hard time getting my head around a diet that I can stick to. I lost 25-30 lbs with that WOE, but slowly put 15 back on over the last few months. I think I can finally look at this diet in a rational manner (I had rejected it last fall). I've done a ton of research on the subject, so I'm in a much better frame of mind, which will lead to success, I hope. And this thread is a great big help, thanks to you all.

Jana - Take care. Don't stress to much.

Well, ladies, I need to get back to work. Weekends are always my downfall, but I'm determined to stay on plan for this one. I'll be deciding when I'll have my FM next week and what I'd like to have. That will keep me occupied.

[workingmomof3]

Gibster,

So are you waiting 2 weeks before you first free meal? I'm going to this weekend... it will only be either my 4th day on plan or 5th - but as I mentioned in a previous post, I don't want to announce my diet again like last year... I want the fact that I lose the weight to be my 'announcement'!!

I know... weekends..... ahhhhhh