PSMF! Anyone?

[sallywarren]

Hello all! It's been awhile since I've been around ( It's been a crazy couple of weeks. On my last post I was getting some great advice regarding wanting to take a day off for my birthday. I went and saw my doctor on the week of my birthday and was disappointed to find out I'd only lost 22 pounds in 3 months! My doctor decided to start me on metformin, as I've been really diligent with the diet and have had no refeeders. My doctor also advised against taking the day off for my birthday, as well as my nutritionist. I ended up taking the day off, as things have been very crazy lately and the diet was definitely getting to me, and hey a birthday only comes along once a year! I'm still waiting to see what happens with it...definitely have a little water weight but not sure if any real weight. I'm concerned/curious because I haven't been allowed refeaders and nothing has been mentioned regarding them by my doctor. My goal is/was to lose about 40 pounds and I guess I'm half way there ) It's going a lot slower than I was told by my doc. I'm VERY dilligent with dieting, always have been, but my body just doesn't seem to respond well....a little sad about that ( Oh well. I love reading this board when I get a chance! It's nice to see such nice people doing so well ) It also seems like we all share some of the same hang ups with the diet too, which is a good to know and feel supported ) HAve a good afternoon and kudos to all of you for your successes !!!!! YEAH!!!! )

[gibster]

Hi, PSMFers! (oooo, that doesn't sound good.) I've been lurking here for the last couple of days. I have LM's 2 books, and I just downloaded the new version of RFL. I've decided to start TODAY. I had tried to do it last fall, but my visions of Kimkins kept dancing in my head. I was so afraid of doing LC/LF because I didn't like what was happening to me, mentally. I pushed LM's plan away, because I was confused, I guess. But, after gaining back 15 of the 35 lbs I lost on KK, and trying to do Atkins - to no avail - I've come to the conclusion that PSMF is probably the way to go.
3Diva - your posts, especially, got me thinking that I could do this. I just have to plan everything out. The only problem I'm having with Lyle's plan is the low fat part. I fully intend to lower my fat consumption, but I'm not sure how low I want to go. On KK, I never went fat free, and it still worked. I think I'll add coconut oil this time. You have some great tips for getting started, too. Thanks.
I have about 70 lbs to lose, so I'm hoping to get a good jump-start by using this plan for at least 2 months, then I'll re-assess.
Since I'm Category 3, I'm supposed to have 2 free meals a week. Do you all strictly follow this free-meal schedule, or do you plan one when you feel the need?

[3Diva]

Originally Posted by janamonkey

<snip>

My numbers I shoot for are 130p/20f/20c - I don't count veggies in this.

You aren't counting the fish oil in the fat grams, right?

I'm shooting for between 120-130P myself, and I count all veggies, soy sauce, mustard, fish oil, you name it...and I usually wind up just under 1000 cals that way. My fat is also usually between 34-50, but 14g of that is fishy.

Maybe that's why my calories seem higher overall. I shoot for 20 total carb, but I don't freak if it hits 35, since I count veggies and usually have 10 fiber grams in there, anyway.

[3Diva]

Originally Posted by gibster

<snip> I had tried to do it last fall, but my visions of Kimkins kept dancing in my head.

Fear not, this ain't Kimkins. I find the fish oil makes a huge difference in my energy and mental attitude. The high protein levels make sure I'm not losing LBM, I'm not losing any hair, I'm not as weak.

Originally Posted by gibster

<snip>
3Diva - your posts, especially, got me thinking that I could do this. I just have to plan everything out. The only problem I'm having with Lyle's plan is the low fat part. I fully intend to lower my fat consumption, but I'm not sure how low I want to go. On KK, I never went fat free, and it still worked. I think I'll add coconut oil this time. You have some great tips for getting started, too. Thanks.

I tried to keep coconut oil in the beginning, but I felt like I was pushing out too many other foods to still keep my calories around 1000. A tablespoon of fish oil plus the small amount in your protein and low-fat dairy (I don't do fat free, either...) will keep you covered.

Also, ease into it. I did high fat, super low carb Atkins '72 until ketosis kicked in and then tapered calories (mainly cutting fats.)

Originally Posted by gibster

I have about 70 lbs to lose, so I'm hoping to get a good jump-start by using this plan for at least 2 months, then I'll re-assess.
Since I'm Category 3, I'm supposed to have 2 free meals a week. Do you all strictly follow this free-meal schedule, or do you plan one when you feel the need?

Well, I'm not the best person to ask, because for the first 3 weeks, I was terrified to take a free meal or a refeed (I am borderline category 2/3.) However after starting to feel rundown about 3 weeks in, I took a chance on the free meals and refeeds and I think they not only made me feel stronger, but lose better, too.

If you're doing well, hold off the free meals, but don't be afraid to try them when you're ready. I usually avoid carby starches and allow myself larger portions, more veggies and higher fat.

Oh yeah, and welcome! I'm glad my rambling can be of use to others.

[gibster]

3Diva - Perhaps you're right about the coconut oil. I already take fish oil capsules - just not as many per day as Lyle recommends. I'll up that.

Thanks again.

[Lioness0455]

We had a decent sized snow storm last night, so I'm glad I listened to my body and brought in enough wood for the stove to last all evening, before my husband got home from work last night. We got maybe 3 or 4 inches, but most of that is gone now. The melt-off is just as hard on me, though, as the storm itself is, so I'm taking the day off from exercising.

Jana, geesh, I didn't mean to inspire you enough to hurt yourself!!! I guess that means I can probably do more of the regular ones though. Three, even of the splits, wasn't too much this week. I'm doing okay there. So I'll increase them next time.

I don't really have "any" specific target I shoot for with my macros, other than my protein. I try to get 120 grams protein bare minimum. And hopefully more. Protein helps to keep me full, plus it doesn't seem to affect my weight loss any. I average about 35 total carbs with veggies. Maybe 10 of those carbs are fiber. But my calories and fat grams are all over the place. They range from 600 to 1100 calories, and 10 to 40 grams of fat (NOT counting my fish oils) depending upon the protein sources I choose.

I don't do non-fat dairy either, nor egg whites. Though I did try some nonfat cream cheese this week which wasn't too bad -- I mixed it up with a bit of dijon mustard and minced pickled jalapenos, then tucked it into a stalk of celery. But I think it would work good as a dip for cucumbers too.

The most "amazing" thing I've done on psmf food wise, was to go waaaaay out on a limb, and take the advice of someone on Lyle's forums who suggested using sour cream in your tuna salad. At first, I thought that was absolutely CRAXY!!! It's just gonna taste like tuna/sour cream. But I wanted to make this diet work. So I thought, I would try it, because I wouldn't be out all that much if it flopped.

Well...I drained the can of water-packed tuna, and then mixed in 1 tbsp sour cream (full fat cuz that's the only kind my husband will eat), 1 tbsp dijon mustard, 1 tbsp dill pickle relish, and about 6 or 8 slices of pickled jalapenos that I minced up. And you know what? It tasted JUST LIKE TUNA SALAD! I was very shocked. I couldn't tell it wasn't made with mayo!

I also like to make my chocolate protein shakes with 1/2 cup low fat cottage cheese, to replace the heavy cream. I use 1 tbsp cocoa powder, 2 tbsp vanilla davinci syrup, and 1/3 cup water, plus 4 ice cubes. It makes them very thick, and looks just like a chocolate milkshake. I drink one of these every morning before work.

Day 1: 180.4
Day 2: 177
Day 3: 176.2
Day 4: 174.6 FM
Day 5: 175.2
Day 6: 174.4
Day 7: 174.4 FM
Day 8: 174.8 FM
Day 9: 174.8 Refeed
Day 10: 177.4
Day 11: 175.4

Down 2 pounds today since my refeed!

[janamonkey]

Lioness- no I didn't hurt myself I am just sore from a new exercise!

3Diva- no I don't count the fish oils. I take 6 a day - 3 in the AM and 3 in the PM

Gibster- I follow the free meal/refeed plan as written. I think it is very important to do so

[3Diva]

Quick Post, the little people are up early.

I hit 159! I actually made a goal for the first time since I joined LCF in 1999!

Refeed tonight (yum yum!)

Measurements: 4wk ago 2wk ago NOW
(170.8) | (163.8) | (159)

Neck x | 13.75 | 13.75
Band Size 37.125 | 36.5 | 36
(under arms)
Bust 40.75 | 40.5 | 39.625
(highest crest)
Ribcage 34 | 32.875 | 32.375
(under bust)

NW 35.25 | 33.75 | 32.625
BB 39.825 | 38.5 | 38.25
Hips 43 | 41.75 | 40.75

Wrist (R) 6.5 | 6.5
Forearm x | x | 10.325
(R below elbow)
UpperArm
(cut in delt/bicep)
13.5 | 13.5 | 13.325
Thigh (R) 24.75 | 24.25 | 24
(high)
Thigh (R) x | 17.375 | 17.125
(just above knee)
Calf x | 14 | 13.325

[ddailey320]

Woke up to a 2.5 pound whoosh this morning!! Which puts me at where I was last Friday before my crazy weekend. I had a feeling I might be- last night my stomach started growling like crazy (although not truly hungry). Ever find your body tries a last ditch effort to hold onto weight before a whoosh?? This puts me at about 10 pounds away from June 1st mini goal!!!

I still think TOM is approaching (am I the only one that never seems to keep track and trying to remember and guess its arrivial???? )

My calfs are still tight and sore from Michael Jillians 30 day shred the other day. Hoping to get in some pilates or something "easy going" tonight. I am suppose to be planning a free meal either today or tomorrow. Hate to see my number go up so I think it will be a very mild free meal, can't say I'm really craving anything anyways!

My Menu:
1) 1/2 EAS shake, 1/2 Scoop PP (tried PP mixed in just water yesterday- yuck!)
2) Mock danish (1/2 C egg beaters, 1 T ff cream cheese, splenda, vanilla)
3) 1/2C lowfat cottage cheese and 1oz cucumbers
4) 3 oz lemon chicken (made on the grill last night!)
5) 3 egg whites and 2 turkey bacon
6) 4 oz ground turkey on 2 cups salad w/ 1 T light sour cream and 2 T salsa
TOTALS: 593 8/15/105

**also adding 6 fish oil caps ( so long as I can remember )

CONGRATS DIVA!!!!! btw~ how are you getting such precise measurements??

[Fifi]

Wow, everyone is doing so great!

3diva - congrats on hitting goal!
Ddailey - a 2.5 whoosh?! Good for you! I want one of those!

Welcome to those new and those who are returning!

I'm down again today which puts me at 153. I was this weight last Friday, but then I slipped up and dealt with TOM. So, maybe if I can keep my mind occupied I can get close to my mini goald of 147 by next Friday.

I've been bummin' this week. That's been affecting my sleep and today I am really tired. I haven't been wanting to eat either. Dunno if that is good or bad...

[janamonkey]

1 144.2
2 142.2
3 141.6 FM
4 141.6
5 141.4
6 139.8 RF
7 141.8
8 142.8
9 142.0
10 139.8 FM
11 142.8
12 140.8

Fifi- I'm sorry you are down. That stinks. I think that most important is getting in the protein requirements, do you drink PP shakes? That's a good option.

3Diva- Congrats!! Thats awesome you are in the 150's!!

[shamrock67]

Hi-

I have never posted here before- but, I got a response on the board where I posted about protein shakes-
I am wondering what the plan is all about that you ladies are doing?? I used to do a low carb diet, which used to work very well for me, but I tried again this Jan., and only lost 4 lbs- then tried intermittent fasting, and lost 6 and stayed at that 10 lb loss for 2 mos.- then I tried calorie cycling and lost 5 lbs, and now I am doing a diet that I made up myself, based on something I saw on the internet that weight lifters do- it basically consists of 5 protein shakes per day- I make it in the am and add 3 Tlbs of ground flax seed meal, 1 Tbls benefiber, and take 3 1000 mg fish oil supplements per day- I just started it Monday and have lost 4 lbs- I plan on eating 4-5 meals each day this weekend consisting of basically low carb/high protein meals- is this similar to what you ladies are doing? It seems like you are trying to keep your protein high- I am getting around 130 grams per day with the shakes- Any suggestions?

[gibster]

Hi, everyone.

I actually stayed on plan yesterday, albeit light on the protein. Thursdays are always a light day for me because I have my bowling league in the evening - leaving me just enough time to drive home, change clothes, and grab something quick to eat. Yesterday, I was running a little late, so only grabbed a HB egg and a RF cheese stick. I've decided that next Thursday's dinner will be a free meal. It's our last night of bowling and we always have dinner catered in. I pretty much know what types of food will be served, so I will be sensible about it. It actually feels good to plan for it, and not feel guilty!

I find that I really have to sit down and plan out my protein intake. My usual gram-count is well below the recommended amount. I think I will need to add in some EAS shakes as snacks. I also need to start exercising regularly - according to Lyle's recommendations. I've gotten lax about it for the last few months. I have osteoarthritis of the lumbar spine and walking just 15 minutes a day, plus doing some core exercises given to me at PT really help alleviate the pain in my hips, but I tend to "forget" that.

I see that weekends are difficult for alot of you, too. I must say, tho, that being able to come here and read everyone's posts really will help me to stay motivated.

Randi - I guess I could blame my weight gain on pregnancies, but seeing as how my youngest is 33, no one would believe me.

Lioness - Your posts are extremely informative and helpful.

Have a great weekend, everyone! I'm sure I'll be checking in here often.

[ddailey320]

Hi Shamrock!!

Glad you made your way over here!! Most of us here have read and are following Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss (or a variation there of). We are focused on adaquet protein (I won't say high) to maintain lean body mass. The rest of calories is comprised of low carb/glycemic veggies and low fat (mostly obtained from Fish oil) As you'll see, our macros vary a bit depending upon where we are at and our personal goals. Most are around 500-1000 calories/day. Many of use protein shakes/powder to reach necessary protein while maintaining low fat/carbs. We also incorporate free meals and/or refeeds and many of us also add in exercise/weight training a couple times per week.

What are your overall calories/fat/carbs like per day?? Are you doing meals in addition to shakes this weekend or instead of? Do you also work out?? (sorry all the questions! )

Linda~ I find the EAS shakes to be helpful in reaching my necessary protein for the day (i'd rather drink my protein calories than eat 'um) I started mixing 1/2 EAS shake with 1/2 scoop Any Whey which is a bit less calories and 0 fat. I tried mixing the Any Whey with just water which was "tolerable", but I'll spend the extra cals and use 1/2 a shake to make it more enjoyable. I plan on freezing one tonight and putting it in my snow cone maker for a frozen protein treat! (you can also throw some in a blender with ice and its good)

~Danielle~

[Moretta]

Have read most of the posts here, and would like to give this a try. It sounds pretty promising after seeing everyone's results. Does one have to stick to low fat or can one continue on with high fat?

Does everyone here have Lyle's book? I am thinking of purchasing one, but don't know yet if this is for me. So undecisive.

I am willing to hear any suggestions that anyone can spare.

Thanks.

[shamrock67]

ddailey320- Hi there!

Well, the shakes have 200 calories, 27 grm. of protein each, and 12 grams of carbs, and I cant remember what the fat is.... I know there is 1 gram in the powder, and I have been using 1% milk.....I didn't think I could lose weight with as many carbs as I am getting, but it is happening- This weekend, I am going to do lean meals- consisting of veggies and meat- maybe throw a little cheese in there- I have been walking every day- I walk 10 min to work and then from work, and 1/2 hr during my lunch, then I try to do some after work, but that doesn't always seem to happen. so, it will be interesting to see what my weight will be tomorrow am and then monday am after eating the meals instead of the shakes.... I am just so excited that so far it has worked- I would like to be down to 210 by Memorial day- so far, I haven't been really hungry either - which is pretty amazing since all I have had over the last 5 days is protein shakes....
You mentioned a calorie range of 500-1000 per day- is it possible to lose on 500? Doesnt your body go into starvation mode? Or does it not because of the high protein and fish oil?
Thanks for your questions and responses- what I love about this site is how much we can learn from each other-

[ddailey320]

you can certainly lose on 500 a day. I'm not saying everyone should/needs to go that low, I'm just doing what works for me and what I am personally comfortable with At my present weight/body fat % my body requires about 105 g Protein (4 cals/g. of protein x 105= 420 cals. The remainder of my calories are added in by my 6 fish oil caps - 60 calories -and of course some low carb veggies and low fat dairy All together totally 550-650 calories/day) - I know everyone has their own thoughts and beliefs about "starvation mode" but I am more inclined to believe that if your body has the stored fat (1 pound fat= 3500 calories, think of how many calories your body has ready to use even if you are 10-20 pounds overweight, nevermind 40-50pounds!) What will happen of course, is that you will not lose it as quickly. This is the reason for the free meals/refeeds. There is also a 2 week break (maintanence style plan) incorporated in this plan which further helps to refuel your body for either round 2 or to move on to a more permanent WOE that will help you maintain your weight/fat loss.

Moretta~ hi and welcome!! Protein Sparing Modified Fasts (PSMF) are by definition quite low in fat/carbs. That's not to say that a low carb/moderate protein plan won't work! I'm sure there are plenty that do it and succeed at it. This plan in particular is just not set up that way. This is meant to basically lose fat quickly while maintaining Lean Body Mass. If you do decided to buy the book (whether hard copy or E-book) definitely go through Lyle's website where it is cheaper! It's definitely not a plan for everyone, but then again, what is It is also not meant to be a permanent WOL, but rather a jumping off point to get you where you need to be!

Boy I'm rambling on today!! I't naptime for the kiddos and a Friday- that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Hope at least some of this makes sense and helps someone (although I certainly won't be offended if it dosen't )

[shamrock67]

OK-

So, I googled psmf- and that is basically what I have been doing....so, I found one example where they suggested 4 shakes per day and lean meat/small amt of veg for dinner every day- but, I don't really get the "refeed" thing- is that just eating sensible meals for a couple of days? I wonder if I should try to lower my carb intake- I don't want to mix the shake with water (YUCK!!)- maybe I could buy the hood calorie countdown, which only has 3 carbs instead of the 11 in 1 percent milk- I am wondering how I should adjust this- all I know is, if I don't change things up every so often, I stop losing weight, which is why I was going to break things up with solid food this weekend....

[janamonkey]

(sorry I keep editing my post)

I want to add that I prefer whole food to shakes whenever possible. It will keep you fuller longer, IMHO.

[ddailey320]

I love the Hood Carb/Calorie Countdown (whatever they are calling it these days). I was using this with my PP up until this week when I ran out Will definitely be picking up more- less carbs, less calories and more protein than reg. milk!!

I think you can certainly do the shakes, but I wouldn't feel confiend to them- KWIM?? There are plenty of great Low Fat/Low Carb/Protein rich foods that you can eat. Chicken, fish, lean ground turkey, etc. Some people may get bored of drinking shakes so much (never mind cost) and be gung ho at first but then give up after a few days/weeks. Not saying you are this way!! Just adding my 2 cents!

Free Meals: "this is a single meal that breaks your diet. When I say break I mean that it doesn’t conform to the rest of the diet in either the amount or types of foods you get to eat. The main benefit is psychological, dieting nonstop for days or weeks on end gets to be a real mental grind, more so on an extreme diet like this one." It is simply 1 meal that you can add something "special" to. Still trying to meet your protein requirements, maybe add in carbier foods, or dessert (portion control needed) or maybe something higher in fat than you would normally be eating. This is not meant to be an entire day of free-for-all eating.

Refeeds: "deliberate periods of high-carbohydrate overfeeding that are performed from anywhere from 5 hours (at the shortest) to roughly one day (probably the average) up to three day...Category 2 dieters will be performing a 5-hour refeed once per week during the diet (they also get one free meal per week). During their refeed, they should try to consume 1.5-3 grams of carbohydrate per pound of LBM (~3-6.5 g/kg for the metrically inclined). So a Category 2 dieter with 150 pounds of LBM would consume between 225 and 450 grams of carbohydrates (900-1800 calories worth) in that 5-hour time span."


What Catagory am I?
Category..........Male BF%.......... Female BF%
1....................15% and lower....24% and lower
2....................16-25%.............25-34%
3.....................26%+...............35%+

Daily protein intake based on activity and diet category
Category.....Inactive.....Aerobic..... Weight training
1 ................1.25........ 1.5............... 2.0
2 .................0.9........ 1.1............... 1.25
3 .................0.8........ 0.9................ 1.0
Note: all values are grams protein per pound of LBM


Free Meals , Refeeds, and Diet Breaks
Category..... Full diet break.......... Free meals......... Refeeds
1 ...............Every 11-12 days .........No .....................2-3 full days at the end
2 ...............Every 2-6 weeks ..........1 per week ..........5 hours once/week
3 ...............Every 6-12 weeks......... 2 per week.......... None

[Windycitygal38]

Wow, thanks ddaily for the info. I have one of his books-Flexible Dieting. I don't have the RFL one.

Anyhow, I have been doing this diet for a month now and lost 14 pounds , so I know it works. I have not added any free meals yet. Since I am cat. 3 (borderline) I will be starting the two free meals a week. I am going on vacation next week (disney). Any suggestions on what I should do on vacation ? I have no plan on what to do just yet. I am NOT ready for a diet break but I also know I can't be as strict while gone away. (eating out), well, its vacation!! I want to lose like 25 more pounds!!!!

Any suggestions???